Thread: Tried to touch up a blade today and went backwards...

I been wanting to touch up and maintain my edge on my two straights since I've noticed that the edge started to degrade after 2-3 weeks steady use. Not so it wouldn't shave, but some irritation and eventually weepers would creep into my shaves. When I switch to my freshly honed razor, that all goes away. I figured if I got some hones I could give the razor a touch up every couple/few weeks as needed in between major honings.

The blades I have are from the SRP classifieds and have been honed by the sellers for me to date.

Today, I tried to touch up my solingen 9/16 and basically dulled it so that it will hardly shave at all. First, I found getting a good consistent honing stroke more challenging than I thought. I eventually got better at it after some time, but the dulling had already been done.

I've read and read the Wiki and as many forum posts as I could find. 'Watched the Lynn and Glen videos on youtube. I did everything I could to hedge my bet. At times, the razor would start to get sharper (it felt somewhat like a very sharp knife as described by Lynn in one of his bevel setting videos off a 1K). But then I would try to get a keener, shave ready edge on it and it would just get duller again.

At this point, I've confirmed that I have no clue what I'm doing or how to bring the razor back, or even if that's possible now with only the stones I have. I probably made most, if not all the mistakes a newb honer can make, but I don't even know what those were since I don't know what I may have done wrong or right at this point.

What I chose to get for finishing/touch up stones were the Welsh Naturals from AJ that many have been talking about recently on the forum. The stones I have are a 9" x 2" Dragon's Tongue, an 8" x 3" Lynn Melynlyn, and a 9" x 2" darker, finer grit slate (the third hone in AJ's three hone set that some have coined "Welsh or English Thuringian" for lack of a true name for it). I lapped them to 400 with sandpaper. They are flat and certainly feel smooth, as far as I can tell (all the grid marks sand off...).

I honed with tape and started on the finest stone (I'll call it ET for short for lack of an actual name) doing X strokes only. I started with 30 strokes total--10 with slurry, 10 with diluted slurry, and 10 with water only. When that didn't work. I kept honing (perhaps another mistake) and checked the blade every 10 strokes. I tried with slurry, diluted slurry, water only. I eventually tried moving from the DT up through the LM, to the ET. I had varying degrees of sharpness and dullness throughout the several hours I attempted to hone this razor--nothing close to shave ready. The blade is now so jacked up it doesn't really shave at all. It is a door stop on my face. I got a cheap 30x lighted loop to look at the edge. However, while it's interesting to look at, I have no idea what I'm looking for, honestly. The edge looks similar to those I've seen in posted pics here on the forum.

How the heck did the better part of the masses keep their blades touched up in the heyday of straights if it was this easy to tank an edge? I can't believe that everyone was an inherent pro at honing. I must be complicating this more than it needs to be?

So my questions now are -- Do I need to go back to a 1K or something, to bring this blade back? Do I stand a chance of getting a shave ready edge on it with the stones I have? I don't have the cash for more stones at the moment. I figured if I could get some finishers first and was able to touch up a pro honed edge for a while, that I would eventually get a 1K, and maybe a 4K or something and eventually become self contained with regards to maintaining my own edge. That was the plan anyway. Folly indeed!

I know there are many, many fine points to honing and creating a shave ready edge and it seems everyone has their personal preferences. I've read so much info here on the forum that my head just starts spinning at times. But I remember Lynn saying in one of his videos that when he started honing, there wasn't the internet, there weren't any fancy stones like the nortons etc, and a wealth of information to tap into. He even mentioned that he'd honed on pumice before and it all worked out OK.

I'm not saying that I don't want to learn the finer points of honing. But I'd love to find a way to simplify some of this so that I can touch up and maintain my own edge and not send out for to a pro to touch up the blade every few weeks. Any advice would be much appreciated since I just don't have a clue at this point how to proceed and I don't want to just keep honing and honing blindly if it's going to get me nowhere I want to be.

Thanks...

I'm not familiar with your hones, but getting good results with honing, even finishing, does take a little time. I'd start by looking at your edge/bevel under a 10X loupe and good lighting. Figure out where you are, and then you can decide on a plan to go from there.

There must be some other members near LA... If you could find someone to sit down with for an hour or so, it would help immensely.
It's harder to give advice without seeing the edge.

How are you doing the testing as you hone?

I think you're like me in that you feel confident maintaining an edge but are lost establishing an edge. If I were you I would send it to one of the honemeisters here (see Classifieds) and ask this person to explain how he fixed it. I think someone here would be glad tohelp you learn, and perhaps win your business if you decide you don't want to attempt any more yourself. I've got 2-3 razors I can't seem to get right and I have honed it more than described in videos, hundreds of strokes.

Originally Posted by HNSB

There must be some other members near LA... If you could find someone to sit down with for an hour or so, it would help immensely.
It's harder to give advice without seeing the edge.

How are you doing the testing as you hone?

I was using the TPT, TNT at times, and seeing how it shaved and/or popped arm hairs. When the blade would start to feel sharper again. I would shave test it and it would just pull and bind. Much worse than before I started honing it in the first place.

I haven't seen many guys posting here from LA (which would seem strange given the number of people here). It would be great to have some face time with someone who know what they're doing. I learn well by "seeing" what's going on. Since I don't know what I'm "looking" for, I have no idea how to correct. I'm essentially "blind" then and that is part of what is frustrating for me.

Originally Posted by ace

I'm not familiar with your hones, but getting good results with honing, even finishing, does take a little time. I'd start by looking at your edge/bevel under a 10X loupe and good lighting. Figure out where you are, and then you can decide on a plan to go from there.

I have a 30x loupe with an led light. Mostly, I don't know what I'm looking so I don't know that I'd "see" whats wrong with the bevel, if that were the case. I've read the Wiki on bevel setting and seen the pics, but I still don't know how to specifically apply that info to this blade yet. I will figure this out eventually. I am tenacious.

I got a $15.99 100x microscope from Radio Shack (uses AAA batteries and has a tiny light). However on the three I can't get right, it looks good under the microscope. That's why I'm considering getting a professional job and get a second opinion as to what was needed.

Keith, it takes some time, as Ace said.

Rather than spend too much time frustrated or suffering sub-standard edges, get them honed, keep shaving, keep studying or practicing on the stones. Here's where its important to have beater blades on which to practice so your shaves aren't dependent on your developing honing skills.

If you'd like them honed, I'd be happy to do so - just pick up postage. Shoot me a pm.

I KNOW there are guys in LA that can help - they've posted all over. I can't agree more that some time w/ someone skilled would launch your learning curve into warp drive.

The microscope is just a tool. It's not going to tell you everything.
Use it to look for chips or multiple bevels. You'll still need other tests to fill in for what the microscope can't tell you.

The thumbnail test is to check for a set bevel. Beyond that it can actually dull your blade.

Keith,

It sounds like you over-did it. First, as a disclaimer, I haven't used nor do I have any working knowledge of the hones you have. But you have to take a minimalist approach to touch ups, considered to be just a few laps on a high grit hone or paste. Start with the simplest approach, then move down the grits if it doesn't work. So start with water first, then see what happens. It is possible that the use of slurry rounded your edge somewhat, which would account for the loss of sharpness. It seems counterproductive, but there are many threads dealing with the theory and use of natural stones.

Lap counts very as well. If I'm using a synthetic hone it may only take 10 laps, water only, and the razor is back in action. If I'm using my coticule it may be 100 laps water only. I only drop down to slurry if the edge really dropped off, requiring going back to polishing and finishing stages. But by that point you really aren't in touch up territory anymore, you're honing. Unfortunately, this is the part when I tell you that you have to experiment to get to know your hones, otherwise you won't know how they act, and more importantly, how to properly use them.