Thread: The razor that just won't get sharp or operator that isn't that sharp

You may find more information that will help you herehttp://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...ight=ja+norton

And FWIW I would go with DisBurden and MJHammer on their honing opinions. They have been at this awhile.

Originally Posted by Disburden

I only go from the 4K to the 8K when I shave leg hair half length and it cuts through without catching on the hair.

Are you pulling your hair taught or this sans any pressure?

Originally Posted by Disburden

90% of honing is on the 1K stone, that is the most important step, everything else is just smoothing out the sharp edge and adding a tiny bit of extra UMPFH!

Do not go past the 8K level until you can shave WONDERFULLY of it, then use finishing stones...

I only go from the 4K to the 8K when I shave leg hair half length and it cuts through without catching on the hair.
When I go to the 8K if black Swarf builds up on the 8K STOP and go back to the 4K.
Black swarf shouldn't build on the 8K if you did the 4K job.
when on the 8K only make twenty strokes at a time, SUPER LIGHTLY and make sure your elbow is hiked up HIGH or your tip will be duller than the rest of the blade.

strop on leather 100 passes and test shave.
Not good enough? Move to the 8K again and do half the strokes of before.
Strop
Repeat.

After two or three test shaves, if it's not good enough you will need to go back to the 4K or worse the 1K.

If you need help, PM me, I always use the 4/8K Norton, it's priceless.


Once you can do that all the time then take out your 12K hones.

- - - I have a Norton combo 4000/8000 out of the box. Some guys swear by simple straight-forward back and forth and others by small circular motions. The unfortunate thing, and annoying, is that the whole subject is an art and nobody can give definite, provable reasons why their method works. Consequently, it is mostly a trial and error type of thing ie. whatever works for you. To me, this is not very satisfactory and in fact is very frustrating, enough to give it up and return to safety razors.


- - - After viewing the video by the dude in Missouri, I have tried the small circular motions which, if they work, then a pattern of small circular scratches on the blade seems to be the correct thing to work toward. After 2 attempts, starting with the 4k and finishing with the 8K it still does not seem to be cutting satisfactorily, but I shall try several more times before giving up. For the time being, and to limit the variables, I will forget about "stropping".

It sounds like you need to work on the 1k level and not be in the 4k, 8k, levels.
Proper honing is not easy or simple as it looks. That is why we suggest being here for a while and learning to shave with a honed razor before you even think about honing and collecting rocks.

How long have you been straight shaving and stropping daily with shaving?

Originally Posted by Disburden

It sounds like you need to work on the 1k level and not be in the 4k, 8k, levels.
Proper honing is not easy or simple as it looks. That is why we suggest being here for a while and learning to shave with a honed razor before you even think about honing and collecting rocks.

How long have you been straight shaving and stropping daily with shaving?

- - - It is not easy or simple because of the fact that nobody can tell you what
a blade should look like on a microscopic level. This is why it doesn't appear to be easy; if we knew what to aim at, it would take some of the guess work out of it. As for learning - learn what ? Even the experts don't know what to say, ie. "do it this way, because - etc. etc. etc. " Its all guess work.

- - - One clue I have noticed is that users who have achieved a useable blade is that they never use it to cut like a knife. They use it as a sort of a scraper and this is apparently able to cut hairs, at least from one's arm. This tells me that the microscopic serrations on the side of the blade seem to be of greater importance than how sharp the edge of the blade is.

- - - As for myself, I rely entirely on safety razors at present.

The dude in Missouri thinks that one of the biggest problems that folks new to honing have is that they expect to be able to hone a razor perfectly in the first couple of tries. When they can't, they are either frustrated or blame the stones, people trying to help others or anything other than themselves. If you sat down with that guy in Missouri, he would have you honing razors better within an hour. That is because he can see how flat you are keeping the blade, watch the water displacement and see the pressure you are putting on the blade. You would be able to see that a number of strokes is a good guideline on a particular stone and what to look for from each stone before progressing to other stones.

Honing is an art although it is a science to a certain degree as well. It took me hundreds of razors to realize I didn't know what I didn't know when it came to honing. I still learn something new almost every day and I hone razors almost every day. We learn from mistakes. We build from successes. Razors react differently based on structure, previous use or abuse, size and shape.

You have been given some pretty good advice here specifically that setting the bevel is the key to successful honing. I also believe that finishing on higher grit hones with weight of the blade pressure is also key. I'm betting that if you practice with patience and keep the goal in mind without getting frustrated with the journey, you will have more success. Maybe not today, but in the long run.

Have fun and feel free to stop by for a one on one honing session any time.

Originally Posted by Barry2

- - - I have a Norton combo 4000/8000 out of the box. Some guys swear by simple straight-forward back and forth and others by small circular motions. The unfortunate thing, and annoying, is that the whole subject is an art and nobody can give definite, provable reasons why their method works. Consequently, it is mostly a trial and error type of thing ie. whatever works for you. To me, this is not very satisfactory and in fact is very frustrating, enough to give it up and return to safety razors.


- - - After viewing the video by the dude in Missouri, I have tried the small circular motions which, if they work, then a pattern of small circular scratches on the blade seems to be the correct thing to work toward. After 2 attempts, starting with the 4k and finishing with the 8K it still does not seem to be cutting satisfactorily, but I shall try several more times before giving up. For the time being, and to limit the variables, I will forget about "stropping".

Greetings!

I just wanted to add my 2 cents. I'm a novice too, having switched from DEs in February. I think that some new members sometimes think that SR shaving is just a step up from carts and DEs and expect it to be much better from the get go. The key (to me personally) is to go into it with the following in mind - big companies like Gilette, Merkur or Feathers have spent millions and years of development to achieve the edges they get in their blades, so to go into SR shaving as a novice and end-user with a couple of hones or even a full setup is somewhat missing the point. Don't get me wrong I believe that SRs can easily better carts and DEs, but it comes with practice, knowing what a sharp blade should feel like and experience.

That is why I personally think SRP is a wonderful resource for anyone getting into the 'art'. The advice given by fellow members and the wiki pages are invaluable! For this reason, I've followed the general consensus when starting, ie learn how to shave with a SR first, have it professionally honed by honemeisters (knowing what a sharp blade should feel like is vital), learn how to strop and eventually get into the honing game. SR are not for everyone, just like anything else in life, so to only be starting off and expecting equal or better results than with carts or DEs is, to me, missing the point.

Having now been honing my own razors for a few weeks now, I have to thank the dude from Missouri and the dude from Idaho for their invaluable videos on setting a bevel with a chosera and honing on a Naniwa Superstone progression. Because of these videos my technique has greatly improved and I am pleased to report that I'm getting consistently great edges these days and my 'obsession' has taken a whole new level now! Lol.

Anyhow, that's my 2 cents....

Regards,

Ash

Originally Posted by Lynn

The dude in Missouri thinks that one of the biggest problems that folks new to honing have is that they expect to be able to hone a razor perfectly in the first couple of tries. When they can't, they are either frustrated or blame the stones, people trying to help others or anything other than themselves. If you sat down with that guy in Missouri, he would have you honing razors better within an hour. That is because he can see how flat you are keeping the blade, watch the water displacement and see the pressure you are putting on the blade. You would be able to see that a number of strokes is a good guideline on a particular stone and what to look for from each stone before progressing to other stones.

Honing is an art although it is a science to a certain degree as well. It took me hundreds of razors to realize I didn't know what I didn't know when it came to honing. I still learn something new almost every day and I hone razors almost every day. We learn from mistakes. We build from successes. Razors react differently based on structure, previous use or abuse, size and shape.

You have been given some pretty good advice here specifically that setting the bevel is the key to successful honing. I also believe that finishing on higher grit hones with weight of the blade pressure is also key. I'm betting that if you practice with patience and keep the goal in mind without getting frustrated with the journey, you will have more success. Maybe not today, but in the long run.

Have fun and feel free to stop by for a one on one honing session any time.

I also want to thank "the dudes' and everyone else contributing good advice. My honing has gone from pocket knife sharp to easily cutting leg hairs. A few days of growth on the neck still present a bit of a challenge, but a little honing every day and generally I get a razor that is a little sharper every day! And thanks to Stimpy52 for the razor I bought from him several months ago so that when I need a face without patches, I have a tool for the job. I can't do much about the patches on my arms and legs though

: DUDES!

As stated above you really need a 1k if you are planing on honing and a better finisher that a 8k. If the bevel isnt set your wasting your time by going up to a higher grit stone. Set the bevel on the 1k till it cut hair on every part of the cutting edge then move up.

BTW I like the swoop and loop method when i hone