Thread: How to hone a Japenese wedge?

I appreciate all the advice, guys. I think I'm getting somewhere. Out of the box, the razor was able to shave arm hair, but no amount of honing (including forward pressure) and stropping w/ CR-OX would get me to HHT. Finally I tried the tape -- a single piece. I did a few X strokes on the DMT 8F, the coticule, and then the balsa strop. Voila, HHT at all points on the blade.

Maybe if I had experience with Western-style wedges, this wouldn't have been too different. We'll see how the shave goes in a day or two, and then how well it strops day-to-day.

Oh boy.

I've been trying to get this guy to grind out hollows for MONTHS. Maybe a year?

I've tried to hone at least a half dozen and not gotten a reasonable edge on a single one. If you do, let me know.

It's not the steel, it's not the heat treatment, I'm convinced it's the grind. He's grinding them at 23 degrees+, and then you have to hone with tape, and it just doesn't feel good on the face.

By the way, it's "Takami" not "Tensui." Takashi would read it that way, but that tells me he's not in direct contact with the maker...just an FYI.

JimR, interesting that you know this razor (and the maker?). I looked all over the net, including your site, for experience on it; not finding any, knew I was taking a risk. Guess I should've asked you first!

I wouldn't know about the angle of the grind, but it sounds like I'm not the only one who's experienced the futility of honing the bevels flat on the hone, as the seller recommends. I'll let you know how it shaves...

Also thanks for the correction - I used "Tensui" because the seller's page refers to "the blacksmith, Tensui". Good to know his real name is Takami. But who is Takashi? (I was born in Tokyo and some of my first words were Japanese, but I don't remember any of it.)

I promised to report on how my Tamakitou (a.k.a. Tensui) razor shaved. First, I want to summarize how I managed to sharpen the thing (with lots of help from this group):

The razor came nearly shave-ready. I first tried to finish by honing both bevels flat, as recommended on the seller's Web page. I used x strokes on a coticule with no slurry, applying forward pressure on the edge. This ultimately failed to sharpen the edge any further.

While honing, I noticed that one end of the edge (near the tip) consistently failed to undercut the water. This led me to believe that the bevels were not perfectly flat. So I stepped down to a DMT 8F (600 mesh) and flattened both bevels.

Then I stepped up to the DMT D8EE (8000 mesh) and then to the coticule again. I was getting proper undercut now, but after a lot of honing, still no joy.

Finally, I added one layer of tape to the spine. Did a dozen or so X-strokes on the 8000, establishing a very small, even secondary bevel (about 2cm, or 1/16"). After few minutes of very light strokes on the coticule, and a final balsa/CR0X strop, I was cutting hanging hairs.

Now, about the shave -- obviously more subjective than the above:

This razor has a solid, heavy feel in the hand. At the same time, the small asymmetrical handle gives fine finger control.

The extra mass of the blade reminds me of what I read about Western wedges (which I've never used): it plows through the beard easily. This quality was especially striking when shaving ATG, something that I can't do very well with my hollows.

Maybe because I'm still a newbie shaver, I had no particular trouble using this new style of razor. Both sides are identical, so I had none of the difficulties some people report with the asymmetrical kamisori.

Finally, the 2 1/4" blade is very maneuverable compared to the standard 3" blade. My beard's not heavy, but it grows every which way, and the short blade allows me to adjust accordingly, undeterred by most of the innies and outies of the face, chin, and neck. This was gratifying, because that's what I was hoping for when I started looking for a shorter razor (not necessarily a Japanese style).

In summary, it's been a learning experience. I'm glad I did it, but have to admit it's not for the faint of heart. Maybe if I had added the secondary bevel from the get-go, it would have been much easier -- hard to tell, since I don't think the main bevels were machined quite right. It was a calculated risk for me because I didn't find any advice or anecdotes about it; if more razors like this show up, maybe my report will be useful to someone else.

Originally Posted by denisb

JimR, interesting that you know this razor (and the maker?). I looked all over the net, including your site, for experience on it; not finding any, knew I was taking a risk. Guess I should've asked you first!

I wouldn't know about the angle of the grind, but it sounds like I'm not the only one who's experienced the futility of honing the bevels flat on the hone, as the seller recommends. I'll let you know how it shaves...

Also thanks for the correction - I used "Tensui" because the seller's page refers to "the blacksmith, Tensui". Good to know his real name is Takami. But who is Takashi? (I was born in Tokyo and some of my first words were Japanese, but I don't remember any of it.)

Denis,
Sorry i haven't replied yet.
Takashi (or is it Takeshi? Can't rememnber) is the guy in charge at Aframestokyo. It's not a language thing, he's using a very odd alternative reading for the kanji in the name he chose. Anyone who just saw the name would read it Tensui, but he says it's Takami.
That's probably the reason you couldn't find info on my blog, too.

I must say, I'm glad and surprised you could get an edge on it. I've given up, and the other readers of my blog appear to have as well.

I can't leave this thread without sharing how I set my secondary bevel and got a decent shaving edge on the Takamitou wedge razor. The key for me was to change the conventional taping method, which doesn't work with this razor. The reason is the razor's irregular geometry.

On a hollow ground razor the spine is machined to a consistent distance from the edge. Also, the fat part of the spine creates a consistent height and length for the angle of the secondary bevel. That makes it simple to tape: you don't have to center it exactly, as long as both sides extend into the hollow.



On the Takamitou wedge, you do have to be exact about taping, because the edge of the tape, which touches the hone, determines the height and length of the honing angle. What's more, the Takamitou's spine is not machined, and it's curved a bit from one end to the other. So if you wrap your tape around the spine in the usual way, it's unlikely to be the same distance from the edge of the blade at every point. As a result, the angle of your secondary bevel will be inconsistent, making it impossible to get a well-honed edge. I suspect this is why people haven't been able to sharpen this razor.



Enough theory, here's the method I used:

1. Cut a piece of electrical tape the length of the spine. (Note, I used a single piece of tape, not two, to keep the angle within recommended limits)

2. Cut the tape in half lengthwise. Note the "factory edge" of each piece (the edge you didn't cut), and put it some place where you can easily pick it up later.

3. To make the jig, cut a piece of heavy-gauge paper to the long dimension of the blade.

4. Fold the paper in half along the length, creating a sharp, straight crease. Using a straightedge, cut your jig to the width of the bevel.

5. Open the paper and carefully place the sharp edge of the blade into the crease. Hold the jig snugly against the edge and sides of the bevel, being careful not to cut the paper (or yourself!).

6. Tape the spine, one side at a time, using the jig as a guide. Be sure to apply the factory edge of the tape against the jig, not the edge you cut.



That did the trick for me. With this taping, my honing was pretty standard: after a Norton 4k/8k pyramid sequence, I finished on my Chinese waterstone and a few strokes on the CR 0.5 balsa strop.

I'm getting good shaves with this razor. Before each shave (after the first one) I give it 30 or so strokes on the leather strop, with a little slack since this is a wedge. I've kept the paper jig so I can use it the next time the blade needs honing.

Originally Posted by mainaman

My thought exactly, and tried both with tape and also raised spine with very thin acrylic strips, still did not work well.
The tape would need replacement very often, and eventually after a while I gave up, I just did not see enough improvement to justify more time and effort on that razor.

IMO the soft iron will be easy to regrind then the razor should hone fine.

This was one of mine and I eventually gave up on it as well. Got a bevel on it, but could not refine the edge as it just stuck to the hone. Since I only have naturals (coticule) it made the task quite difficult and I just parted with it for quite a loss. Not sure if the new owner was able to put an edge on or not.

If you can get a bevel, maybe try some lapping film as it cuts fast and may prevent the suction action I got with it.

Edit: I see you got it shaving - nicely done.

What's the purpose of the piece of paper?

I had no problem getting to the edge on the one I honed, the razor holding its edge was another matter.

Why not use a metal cuff that can be shoved over the spine of the razor instead of tape? Would that be something to use on this razor?

Mastro Livi once made one for majurey. It is described in 3rd post of this thread and commented on in a few posts following it. http://straightrazorpalace.com/gener...tml#post135447

Unfortunately the pics are no longer available.