Help with few honing questions! Dovo INOX

[Double0757]

I'm having a hard time setting a bevel on a Dovo inox, full hollow 5/8. There is one spot, on one side of the blade (1/8 of the length, close to the toe) that is not making contact with the hone (sharpie marker test). Started on the 800 king with no tape ( it had micro chips and wire edge in one section, ruin by an unintentional TNT test), after hours of not doing much on the 800 with no tape, I watch more videos on honing, and decided to put double tape on the spine. Once double taped, I went to town on the 1000 king with more pressure. I was doing 40 circles on each side, follow by 20 X strokes. Did about 6 of this sets till all the micro chips where gone.


Went to one tape on the spine, with the same sets of circles and X strokes. All looks good except that section by the tow. After doing more pronounce X strokes and a little bit of pressure when the untouched section of the edge was close to the hone edge, the marker line was gone. It is a very thin bevel over that section. The blade, at this time, cuts arm hair in about 80% of the blade length but it requires some pressure to do it.


The edge is improving slowly as I can feel it with the thumb sliding up and down the edge.


My hones include 800 king, 1000 king, 1200 king (all from my wood working days), shapton glass 4000, 8000 and 16000. All of them, except the 1200 king (got tired), lapped with DMt 325. Also have felt paddle strop with .5 micron diamond spray and rough leather with Crx.


Questions:


1. Should I lapp the 1200 king and move to it and finish setting the bevel on it , or continue on the 1000 king until the bevel is set (cut arm hair at the base with little pressure on 100% of the blade)?


2. When should I loose the tape if ever? (thinking don't want double bevel)


3. What progression/pyramid should I use on the shapton? Same as the Norton's 4/8?


Any tips would be appreciate it. I's my first attempt and it would not hurt my pride (too much) to send it out for honing, since I know there will be other times to try again. The only thing is that the guy who would have to fix my mistakes is going to have more work. But the way I see it is "his pain is my gain" in experience for myself. The wear on the blade? Well, that's the price for learning.


Thanks in advance Double O.

[ace]

If you start with two layers of tape, don't vary from that. Don't move up through a progression until the bevel is set.

[Double0757]

The two layers was to move quicker on the micro chips that were taking so long to get rid of them. Saw video on the SRP 2011 meet! They use 3 tapes to get a big chip out of the edge. After that ,they started with one tape to set the bevel. Double O

P.S. like I said I don't know what I'm doing!

[Maxi]

Usually, if it's a small section of the toe that's not coming in line, it's because the entire razors is NOT sitting flat on the hone. One to way double check it to flatten the hone. You've done that. Ok, now move on to the razor. Put it on the stone, and don't move it. Take a look at the cutting edge, is it touching?

Put the sharpie marker on the cutting edge again. First, do a normal "heel slightly forward X stroke". Did all your marker come off? Yes, continue with this stroke. No? Ok, then sharpie again. This time, as you get to the end of your X stroke, tighten your fingers on the scales (your pinky and ring fingers)....that's about enough pressure to torque the razor over to the toe. Did the marker all come off this time?

This is the key here....trying a stroke, stopping, evaluating, re-doing, manipulating,.....learning.

If you're really concerned about damage to the razor, an 8k stone will take sharpie marker off just as easy as a 1k stone...

FWIW and of course, IMO, 1 layer of tape after your chips are out is more than enough. Two layers solves problems with really uneven spines when you don't want to grind away too much steel.

Hope this helps Double O.

[Double0757]

I'll try that Maxi. Will report back, maybe on Wednesday. thanks!

[mjsorkin]

1 My opinion is that you either need the 1k or the 1200, not both.

2. Keep the tape. I always use tape and I think it works really well in all stages of honing. Keep in mind that taking away a layer of tape is a little more work than adding one.

3. Not familiar with the shaptons but my guess is that a similar progression would work? Watch the bevel for signs of increased polish. When that stops improving it's time to move on. Most important IMO is to finish on a very clean (no slurry) hone with VERY LIGHT STROKES. And I change the tape before switching hones, sometimes twice; once before my finishing strokes, then another before switching hones.

As for the uneven honing, which stroke is the uneven part on? Is it your away stroke or your coming back stroke. I ask because I think it may be time to examine your mechanics on that stroke. Are you dropping your elbow?, moving your wrist?, lifting the razor at that point? Try changing your body position, position of the hone, grip, etc until you are able to even out your honing stroke. Watch the water on the hone, listen and feel what the razor is telling you on the hone. After you get your honing stroke even, then that part of the bevel may not look quite the same as the rest. I think that's okay as long as it's well formed, even and passes the arm hair and Thumb pad test on that spot. I'm not saying that the razor isn't slightly uneven, that may be the case. But for me, if I get uneven honing, I can usually find the answer in my mechanics whether there is a flaw in the razor or not.

Keep in mind that I'm not an expert here. Standard disclaimer: The above post may be incorrect or misleading!

Michael

[Double0757]

It's my return stroke that is uneven. I just did what maxi suggested. I checked the lapping with a second pass drawing a grid and lapping. The grid disappeared in 20 sec., so I call that even. Went on the hone after sharping the edge. The out stroke clean up on the first pass. The return stroke was another story. Came back with 1/6 of the toe not hone. Lifted the pinkie finger on the subsequent strokes, watch my elbow and form, and it came in contact with the stone. So it is form. I cant work on it again till Wednesday. I'll keep every one posted. One other thing, I'm keeping the one layer tape. Double O

[Maxi]

Form is key! It's not just for figure skaters and weightlifters....but honers too!

[Double0757]

Ok! I worked on the razor for about two hours. I change the tape and went back on the 1K king 20 circles with pressure, 10 X with pressure and then 20 circles light pressure and 10-15 X strokes with light pressure. Between the pressure strokes and the non I used the sharpie marker to check contact with the stone. Still have trouble on 1/6 of the edge making contact by the toe, on the incoming stroke. Manage to cut arm hair in all the blade, however, toward the heel I had to put a little more pressure for it to cut. Moved to the 4k shapton glass 20 circles light pressure and 10 X strokes no pressure. I lost the edge, it wasn't cutting arm hair any more. ????? Went back with light pressure on the 1k king, got to cut again, moved to the 4k, lose the edge. Did this about 3 times. I'll see if I can borrowed my niece's camera and take macro pictures.

Should I loose the tape and start all over? I'm thinking I grinded the spine uneven when I was first doing it without the tape and trying to take the micro chips out. I may send it out and have a honemaister tell me if anything is wrong with the spine. I suspect that it is my form and the blade is fine, but at this point I need to know. Should I try again or wait for another time? Double O

[rickboone]

The toe is not getting honed? Possibly you're lifting the blade. Check Lynn's videos and watch his posture and elbow. The elbow and how you grip the razor (sicboater taught me that) have greatly changed my honing game.

I'm not an expert by any stretch. Don't even play one on tv. Just often it could be the most simple thing.