Thread: This razor is driving me crazy!!!

I've got a 9/16ths wedge, silver steel that just will not get sharp!!

I have been honing on this razor on and off for over a week now. I work on the bevel, think it is good, move up to the 4k and completely lose the edge. I have restarted on this guy at least 4 times.

Tonite I thought I had it, but after coming off the 8k it wouldn't even pass a thumbnail test.

Tonite I used a progression from an 800 to the 1k. After setting the bevel on the 800 it passed the TNT ok. End to end, it bit just like I expected it to. I got that elation that I had a decent bevel and moved up to the 1k for a few strokes. It was pushing water all the way up the blade easily.

It has a straight edge, no smile, I used 3 layers of tape all the way thru, retaping after every stone. I made it thru to the 4k and it still passed the TNT. I polished it on the 8k, 20 circles and 20 strokes as always, flip the stone and do it again. As I came off the 8k I could tell with the TPT that it was gone again. I tried the TNT and it was slick again.

I am getting pretty frustrated with this sucker. I went back to the 4k and did a bunch of circles and strokes, but the bevel just wouldn't come back. Now this is after about an hour of honing on this razor.

So, I just did my standard rotation on it, starting on the 1k, 20 circles 20 laps, flip the stone and do it again. I just moved to the 4k, mag looked good, did the same, moved to the 8k, mag looked good, did the same, moved to the 12k, mag looked great, and did the same. Very light pressure the whole way. Water moving beautifully up the blade. I didn't test, thinking maybe the test was doing it. I went ahead and gave it a few laps on the CrOx balsa and looked under mag. Looked fantastic!! Shiny, barely showing any scratches and glowing like a mirror. Then I tried the TPT and new instantly it wasn't there.

I put it up for the night, thinking I may just cut the scales off of it and throw this sucker out!!!

So, any advice??

M

Mike,
I never use the TNT on anything above 1k to check the bevel is set.
Any 'test' I do after that is the Arm Hair Test (I have never had any joy with the TPT)
If you are going to thow it out - send it to me....hehehehe
Hope it works out for you.
Cheers,
Geoff

Wedges can be bears to hone! And, honestly and I really mean honestly, I don't do all that well with wedges. For what it is worth, here's how I do it...

I always tape the spines of wedges with black electrical tape. I cut about 12 strips long enough to cover the spine, plus an inch, and leave them hanging from the edge of the table. For every hone, I do as follows:

* Hone until about ready to move to the next hone.
* Replace tape and hone another minute.

In other words, I use two strips of tape on every hone. I use the second strip of tape for just a short while before moving to the next hone.

Let's say that with tape applied, the bevel angle being set during honing is 18 degrees. As you hone, the tape will be worn away by the hone. Let's say that when you are ready to move to the next hone the bevel angle is now 17.5 degrees. What this might mean is that when you were honing, part of the time the edge was not being honed, but only the top of the wedge. If you think about it, you will realize that as tape wears down, the edge is lifted away from the hone. And, that is why I change tape VERY frequently.

Some here can tell you how to hone a wedge without tape.

I was just wondering if it's overhoned and if the edge is too thin/fragile/'tin foiling' would it give you those strange results from TNT and TPT because I noticed you're doing 40 circles and 40 laps total on 8k. Maybe I'm way out in left field here however >.<

Originally Posted by mjhammer

So, I just did my standard rotation on it, starting on the 1k, 20 circles 20 laps, flip the stone and do it again. I just moved to the 4k, mag looked good, did the same, moved to the 8k, mag looked good, did the same, moved to the 12k, mag looked great, and did the same. Very light pressure the whole way. Water moving beautifully up the blade. I didn't test, thinking maybe the test was doing it. I went ahead and gave it a few laps on the CrOx balsa and looked under mag. Looked fantastic!! Shiny, barely showing any scratches and glowing like a mirror. Then I tried the TPT and new instantly it wasn't there.

I put it up for the night, thinking I may just cut the scales off of it and throw this sucker out!!!

So, any advice??

M

I'd try a shave test after a progression like that to be honest.
I reckon you have your testing down pat, but still, a shave test might just give a different result than you think.
Bah, I don't know, but that's what I would have done anyway, if for nothing else, to get the 100% true proof it was not in shaving condition.

Originally Posted by mjhammer

I've got a 9/16ths wedge, silver steel that just will not get sharp!!

How big was it before you started honing ?

No seriously, I'm wondering if it was much wider before you got it & now so much steel is gone from previous honing that you have geometry issues or maybe the temper is much softer than the original edge. If it's really bugging you get someone else to have a go.
Usually tho, it's a bevel issue if razor gets less sharp as you go. Does it shave arm hair at 1k ?

Originally Posted by onimaru55

No seriously, I'm wondering if it was much wider before you got it & now so much steel is gone from previous honing that you have geometry issues or maybe the temper is much softer than the original edge. If it's really bugging you get someone else to have a go.
Usually tho, it's a bevel issue if razor gets less sharp as you go.

Exactly what I was thinking. If you can't get it in a couple weeks, I'll be back in town and will give it a go for you, just cover shipping. The temper thing was another thought as mentioned above and if it's your first time to deal with it, it will drive you crazy. I sent a razor to Sham for a second opinion...yep, ruined temper from a auction seller. Still makes a good workshop knife...

I'd go with Larry's suggestion. Anytime I'm on 1K, which is rare, I replace the top layer of tape the minute I see any erosion of the tape surface. In my opinion, taping only on moving off the 1K may not be enough.

Originally Posted by onimaru55

How big was it before you started honing ?

No seriously, I'm wondering if it was much wider before you got it & now so much steel is gone from previous honing that you have geometry issues or maybe the temper is much softer than the original edge. If it's really bugging you get someone else to have a go.
Usually tho, it's a bevel issue if razor gets less sharp as you go. Does it shave arm hair at 1k ?

First thing I should mention is the blade has a slight twist to it. One side lays flatter, so it is more in the grind than a twist, but either way it doesn't lay consistently flat and the toe is up on one side, the heel on the other.

To be honest, the answer to the last question is NO, it never really cut hair well at all. a few times, it would cut a hair or two, but only with the perfect angle and some pressure.

First question, width, it was in terrible shape on the edge when I got it. It had a frown, lots of patina and pitting. I hand sanded it first, then it got some light buffing, then I had to BK (just enough 45 degree angles to fix the frown). No pits are near the edge, no pits really are left now. well, there are definitely some but only high in the blade. So it was closer to a 5/8 when I got it. It has some uneven hone wear as well. So right now the blade is as consistent as I am able to make it.

I actually set the bevel the first time on the DMT until it was knife sharp, using 2 layers of tape before I ever took it to the 800 king. I only did that once. It took some work to get the bevel right the first time, but it still never exactly cut hair coming off the 800. At times it would pop a hair or two, but not consistently across the edge, which is why I would work it some more.

I tried some suggestions from Glen that worked on another wedge that I did hone quite successfully, extreme heel forward japanese type strokes, straight up and back. The bevel would look and feel pretty good coming off the TPT, but it wouldn't be consistent across the blade on the TNT. So back it would go.

Also, as Ace stated, I re-tape after every stone, every time. I've gone from starting with 2 layers, tried 3 layers, dropped to 1 layer on the last attempt. resetting the bevel at each change in tape density. Only thing I haven't tried is no tape at all. I've about used a whole roll of tape on this one! LOL. No way I could write about all the things I tried, I tried too many different things. I pretty much boiled the first post down to the most commonly attempted things, including the latest attempts.

I will have to contemplate this one. I have a feeling it boils down to the touch it needs. Unlike my first BIG wedge which needed a rough hand to get the bevel set, this one hasn't shown its requirements to me yet. Just like this blade, I'm not about to yield to it just yet.! I even took it for a ride this evening. I got the center so it felt and looked good, but it still wouldn't pop a hair.

Thanks for all the advice. I'm not sure if pictures would help or not. Oh, BTW, the bevel is deeper in the center than at the heel and toe now, as would be expected due to the uneven hone wear and grind differences between the sides.

M

A couple of things come to mind Mike.
If it ain't cutting hair early on how much more work are you prepared to do on your mid stones & finishers to get there ? Could be a lot.
Another is magic marker. You making full contact ?
Third is... ok 3 things If it was frowny & in bad shape what's to prevent you rehoning a frown into it ? The spine sets the edge. Have you addressed evening up the spine.? Some strategically use tape but I don't use tape in that situation until I'm happy with the spine at least. I fully accept wedges can need tape tho
There's a bit more info here :Honing: Troubleshooting Guide - Straight Razor Place Wiki