Thread: Norton V Coticule V Shapton V Thuringer V Etc Etc

Thank you everyone for your input on this subject, you all have such a wealth of knowledge.

Now thanks to Tony's search on the subject, and a translation as well, I at least now know what a Thuringen is.

Do many people here use Shaptons? Just curious because they never get mentioned very often. Not that I have seen anyway.

John

I've got the 8k and 15k Shapton Pro. Shapton apparently recommends their glass series of hones for razors, and they may well be right (or maybe not, I doubt anyone there actually shaves with a straight and would really know).

Unlike the norton, you don't have to soak them, so they're pretty easy to haul out and use for touch-ups and odd honing chores. I personally feel that the shapton 8k is finer than the norton 8k. The shaptons are very aggressive hones for their grit number. Both of these hones are very difficult for me to handle, because they're so aggressive there's a tremendous bite on the blade so the blade wants to hop down the stone instead of sliding smoothly. So I use both hands on the blade, but this tends to increase the pressure slightly which increases the bite. On very hard blades the shapton works great, the bite is manageable and the fast cutting nature of the hones is greatly appreciated. But on the softer vintage sheffield blades I have a hard time making them cut slowly enough to produce a good edge.

I used the 15k last night on the Clauss barber's razor I shaved with this morning (see the SOTD forum). The razor was shave ready when it arrived (either from the factory or from the former owner - the hone wear was imperceptible), but I buffed the blade with Flitz for a few minutes which dulled the blade. But the shapton 15k put an outstanding edge on the razor in about 20-25 laps, and the Chrome Oxide paddle finished the job in another 20 laps.

Mparker,

Having given the info you have just supplied I think I can rule out Shaptons for the time being, or until I become more familiar with the whole honing process.

Having just read a very interesting old thread from about a month ago which discussed the ins and outs of coticules and the varying differences in what was considered good ones or not so good ones, and the apparent difficulty in obtaining these stones, I also will cross these of my list, unless someone has a proven one for sale, that they would like to offer me.

Tony Miller has only yesterday updated some info on the Thuringer stones that he has been waiting on, so I shall sit on the fence a bit longer, and see what gives on these stones, but it does seem promising.

John

You've gotten great advice here for a guy who asked such a wide open question. And you didn't even tell us what you intend to do- jusst hone your razor, restore Ebay razors, etc.

Most of us havw a Norton 4/8. It's agood place to start, and it will give you all the capability you need to maintain your razors.

The only other thing I'd recommend is a fine hone, like a Swaty. the most efficient way to maintain a razor is just to strop brfore each use. When that fails to restore full sharpness, do a few round trips (less than 5) on the Swaty to refresh it, and you're back in busines. The Norton is a big stone and needs to be soaked before use. You on't want to do that for 5 swipes. You can even keep the Swaty at the sink in case you need a liitle hone touchup while shaving.

Originally Posted by Joe Lerch

You've gotten great advice here for a guy who asked such a wide open question. And you didn't even tell us what you intend to do- just hone your razor, restore Ebay razors, etc.

Most of us have a Norton 4/8. It's a good place to start, and it will give you all the capability you need to maintain your razors.

The only other thing I'd recommend is a fine hone, like a Swaty. the most efficient way to maintain a razor is just to strop before each use. When that fails to restore full sharpness, do a few round trips (less than 5) on the Swaty to refresh it, and you're back in business. The Norton is a big stone and needs to be soaked before use. You don't want to do that for 5 swipes. You can even keep the Swaty at the sink in case you need a little hone touch up while shaving.

HI Joe,

Thanks for your comments, yeah you are right I did neglect to say what I wanted to do in regards to sharpening, so yes it was a fairly wide open question.

In essence I only want to maintain my own razors, but that is not to say that I may be brave enough some time in the future to buy some razors off ebay.

Your mention of a swaty got me having a look on ebay, and there are two on there at the moment, but I don't know whether they are good or bad, I suppose I'm not sure what to look for. One of them seems to have cracks across the face of it, and the other seems to have rounded edges. Failing that not sure where else to look unless some one here has one for sale?

John

Originally Posted by johnmw1

HI Joe,

Thanks for your comments, yeah you are right I did neglect to say what I wanted to do in regards to sharpening, so yes it was a fairly wide open question.

In essence I only want to maintain my own razors, but that is not to say that I may be brave enough some time in the future to buy some razors off ebay.

Your mention of a swaty got me having a look on ebay, and there are two on there at the moment, but I don't know whether they are good or bad, I suppose I'm not sure what to look for. One of them seems to have cracks across the face of it, and the other seems to have rounded edges. Failing that not sure where else to look unless some one here has one for sale?

John

Look for one that has a smooth face, no chips or cracks.

If you're not sure contact Tilly (redtrader99.com- go to her site). She has many new old stock barber hones. Tell her you want something like a Swaty, and she'll make a recommendation. Or talk to her for a while, and you'll get what you really need.

The differences between stones are significant. The Belgians vs the Nortons are night and day. I use both, sell both and can tell you the Nortons abrade steel against fixed particles that get smoother as you hone while the Belgians create an abrasive slurry which cuts faster and polishes the steel smoother. It's a completely different way to get an edge on a razor or anything else. The belgians don't have to be soaked as they don't absorb water; all of the action takes place on the surface in the slurry.

I currently have two folks who have purchased coticules and blues who are looking at them under high magnification in materials laboratories. They're both saying there is something quite different going on with the belgian influence on the steel i.e. no ragged edges on the steel and no waves in the bevel on the edge of the blade. They've both used other stones prior to going to the belgians.

The belgians come in a variety of colors, shades, and with various amounts of "figure" in them. Regardless of all that diversity in this very natural product, the result of their work on a straight razor is an incredibly sharp edge and results are what important. The differences in colors, shades, and figure don't seem to play such an important role with the Europeans as they do with some folks on this list. In fact, if you look at the video of them making straight razors at Dovo, you'll see a woman honing a straight on a belgian coticule that has black lines going across the stone. That is "figure" and is more or less a surface effect. Her honing technique is also completely different from what we use here in the States.

The belgian combination stones are called "natural" stones and I have about half a dozen in stock in 8x3 and 6x2 and they are truly beautiful stones. I don't put them on the website because they don't come in either often or predictably and I don't like to take folks' money for something I don't have in stock and don't like to sell what I don't have. If anyone wants a "natural", let me know and I'll keep you on a waiting list if I don't have them in stock. When I do get them, they don't stick around long!

Howard