Thread: Honing Epiphany (I think...)

Well, tonight is about the 4th night where I've sat down with my razors and my stones and worked on learning to hone (about 2-3 hours per session).

Tonight, I finally had a breakthrough.

Several years ago, I bought a combo stone at Rockler woodworking here in Denver. When I bought it, I was totally ignorant as to what it was. Well, it turned out to be a 250/1000 Japanese waterstone. I never used it when I bought (I'm not sure what I was thinking then).

Anyway, I got these two plain old ebay razors (A genco and a Geneva Cutlery) and I could not for the life of me get them sharp.

One of my other razors was still sharp enough that I realized I could pop the hairs off my arm so-so (my head hair is too fine for HHT, I think). So if that razor could do it, then I should get the ebay razors to do it.

I tried, and tried and failed, and failed. Then I thought about that stone I had and went and got it.

Since I was so mad at these ebay dullards, I thought "I'm going to give you 10 lashings on the 250 grit followed by 10 on the 1000, 10 on the 4000 with some pressure 5 without, followed by 15 on the 8000"

So I tried that. And I'll be damned if those razors weren't popping some of the hairs. I then tried 10 laps on the 8K with some pressure letting up towards then end, then 5 more with feather touch and they cut even better. Then I stopped it for 20 laps (on a Miller strop, of course) and it was "pink-pinking" hairs like none of my other razors could.

So, of course, I gave the rest of my razors the same treatment, but leaving out the 250 stone (I didn't think I really needed to use it).

So, I'm guessing that by giving the razors some laps on the 1K, I must have reset the bevel, then worked it some more with the 4K and final polished on the 8K.

Either way, I can't wait to shave tomorrow morning!

That's good to hear. Geneva Cutlery Co. is Genco. The one I have in my rotation is a good little shaver so the one I just got in a lot will go to my stepbro. Using the 1k grit is a standard procedure for dull razors (most of the ones I recieve) in my arsenal. Since I don't have a 1k hone, sandpaper does the job and I use it for lapping my Norton anyways.

Spacetoast,

Nice breakthrough. I'm beginning to think that what happens on the lower-grit stones has a bigger impact on the razor's shaving ability than the higher-grit stones. We devote a lot of attention to polishing the edge, but for beginners getting a good bevel is probably more important.

Without a microscope it's hard to tell if you have a good, clean bevel that extends all the way out to the edge. Sometimes I'll see nice, shiny metal all the way to the edge, but when I look at it under the microscope the edge is ragged. It would take years to polish that away, so it's back to the low-grit stones.

Keep at it--things will only get better!

Josh

Well, all I can say is "wow"

The razors were cutting like someone described as "Just wiping the lather off my face".

In the years that I've been shaving, I've been stropping and "honing" on a barber's hone. But over the years, the shaves were less and less comfortable. I eventually stopped using them about two years ago (when I started to remodel the bathroom) and finally decided to figure out how to get them back in shape when the bathroom was complete (with a working sink).

This is just night and day. Even when I splashed on some balm (which has alcohol) I noticed the sting wasn't as intense and face is no doubt BBS.

I think you are right, Josh. I think those lower grit stones are just as important as the higher grit. I mean, it makes sense if you think about it. The lower grit actually shapes the edge and the higher grit really polishes the scratch marks from the previous grit smoother. I think the lower grit gives you your cutting edge and the high grit gives you the comfortable shave. At least in this newbies mind.

Haha, so it looks like I have two Gencos. That makes sense when I stop and think about it. One looks like it was chromed and some of the pieces are flaking off. Not very nice, really. But as an academic study, it was an important razor for me.

Now of course, I'm thinking, "Hmm...how to get the edge even sharper..."

The wheels are turning.

I have to say thanks to all you guys on the board who have discussed this topic in the past. Since I discovered this forum, I've done a LOT of reading.

Also to Lynn and Bill for making their DVD and CD. Watching their technique really gave me a solid idea of how to approach my own honing practice. I appreciate the time and effort you fellows put into your videos and advice.

Today I am one happy shaver!

Your next step is to either use a fine finishing hone like Swaty or abrasive compounds (I'm finishing on a paste made of strop dressing and 0.5micron chromium oxide abrasive powder).

Originally Posted by spacetoast

I think you are right, Josh. I think those lower grit stones are just as important as the higher grit. I mean, it makes sense if you think about it. The lower grit actually shapes the edge and the higher grit really polishes the scratch marks from the previous grit smoother. I think the lower grit gives you your cutting edge and the high grit gives you the comfortable shave. At least in this newbies mind.

That's exactly right. If you can't shave with the edge off the 4k it isn't sharp enough, all the higher grits do is make it nice and smooth. You should try the .5 micron chromium oxide, it's like wiping the lather off with a velvet squeegy :-)

Nice one spacetoast,

Its nice when it all finaly comes together. Of course Lynns video greatly speeds up the process!

I agree with firestart that a .5 micron paste is the next step. This revolutionised the edges I have been getting.

Rob

Originally Posted by spacetoast

I think you are right, Josh. I think those lower grit stones are just as important as the higher grit. I mean, it makes sense if you think about it. The lower grit actually shapes the edge and the higher grit really polishes the scratch marks from the previous grit smoother. I think the lower grit gives you your cutting edge and the high grit gives you the comfortable shave. At least in this newbies mind.

Congratulations!

I think the discovery you made took me a while even after I was getting decent shaving edges. If you're getting Ebay razors or old razors, they tend to have oxidized edges. The 1K gets you down to clean metal, and then a shaving sharp edge is easy. Without that, you may be honing an edge that's starting to get sharp and suddenly you lose it. What I found was that the bad metal got so weak when I thinned the edge down with a fine hone that it was collapsing and forming micro-chips in the edge. ALthough I could get razors reasonably sharp, once I got down to good metal it was like night and day. Every one of those old Ebay razors improved.

Establishing the initial bevel on good solid steel is the necessary foundation for a keen edge. I pay the most attention to the 1K and 4K edge, the rest is easy.

Originally Posted by mparker762

That's exactly right. If you can't shave with the edge off the 4k it isn't sharp enough, all the higher grits do is make it nice and smooth. You should try the .5 micron chromium oxide, it's like wiping the lather off with a velvet squeegy :-)

Mp, you've been stressing the low grits lately, and often mention staying on the 4K til you pass the HHT. How does this apply to refreshing a blade? If you're refreshing a blade that no longer passes the HHT, but did, say, three shaves ago, do you start at the 4K until it passes the HHT again?