Thread: Sharpening Pyramid question

if someone is finding that going too far on a 1k (chosera) causes the edge to degrade, and seems to be having trouble "sneaking up" on the bevel setting stage, would pyramiding at the end of bevel setting between a 1k stone and a 3k or 4k stone be likely t o solve the problem? is there another easy solution? are there likely reasons the edge degrades rather then simply going to far on the 1k?

Originally Posted by ezpz

if someone is finding that going too far on a 1k (chosera) causes the edge to degrade, and seems to be having trouble "sneaking up" on the bevel setting stage, would pyramiding at the end of bevel setting between a 1k stone and a 3k or 4k stone be likely t o solve the problem? is there another easy solution? are there likely reasons the edge degrades rather then simply going to far on the 1k?

That is a good idea to try, I suspect that there might be another issue at work here but you are thinking correctly on the process..

This is not your first razor you have honed.

Have you had the same problem on other razors

Another thought is to add or subtract slurry on the Chosera 1k

Regarding that honing strokes / edge thickness graph: Jimbo, or Glen, or whomever can actually answer this with some real insight gained from experience, I have a question for you:

I believe that it is possible and likely that I commonly complete my honing *just* before the 0.0 edge thickness is reached. Possibly around the 35-40 above the "Honing Strokes" label. I test shave after stropping, its a tad rough of a shave half the time, so I compensate by doing 3-4 strops on a diamond spray impregnated linen strop, then strop on leather, and all is good.

So my question is this: have you found any way to tell when you're done, near done, or going overboard? I'm trying to eliminate the shave test until the razor is complete. Its very inconvenient to hone, test shave, hone more, then test shave again. I want only one test shave, and see that the razor is perfect.

Ideas? Or have I reached the pinnacle of this honing business, and it doesn't get any better/easier?

Honestly,,,

The trick you are looking for is in the lower grits, really at the bevel set...

There is a thread on here where some of the guys took to task my statements about 90% of honing is in the bevel set and that you can actually shave at that level.. They proved it to themselves to be true.

Now, if you are so confident in the bevel set that you know you can shave off it, somehow that makes the rest of honing pretty easy, as in your head, you absolutly KNOW that unless you screw it up, the edge is going to only get better... After that it is just a question of practice and being sure of your tests through the process... The question of when to stop changes with every razor and every different stone, there is no sure fire number...

Basically the more you hone the better you get at honing, the better you get at honing, the less often you will have to re-touch the hones... You will start to decrease the number steadily that you take back for a re-touch until it becomes near zero... I should add "In my experience"

I've been reading your posts for months, and I heard you the first time when you said that 90% of honing is in the bevel set... I think at this point and so many razors later, I hear that advice a little bit louder, lmao!

I have a feeling that I stop on the 1k a little sooner than I should, which adds to my work on the 4k, and I probably stop too soon on that half the time, adding to my work on the 8k...

I also wonder if I'm putting just a little too much pressure and not enough strokes on the higher grits...after all, I'm always rushing the honing process, try to crank out those wedges in half an hour if I can...

I've got a new crop of razors waiting to get restored, so I'm going to try to listen to that advice a little closer and see if I can't save myself a bit of work on the hones

PS - I always test shave on wet arm hair when I think I'm done with the 1K. BUT, I don't "hover the razor over standing hair to splice it in twane," if it just shaves without too much pulling, I assume the bevel is set.

I agree with Glen - you just need to keep honing and gaining experience.

The real trick with "efficient" honing, in my mind at least, is effective use of tests at the various stages of the honing process. There are many tests out there (see for example the wiki) and not every test suits every person, but developing a reliable suite of edge tests is the name of the game.

My tests go as follows:

<= 4K (bevel setting): Wet thumb nail test. Occasionally arm hair test (touching skin);
> 4K: Wafting arm hair. Occasionally, after final finisher, HHT

The problem with telling people to do this test or do that test is that there are personal nuances with these tests that are hard to convey, and perhaps are even impossible to convey. The trick is calibration - many repeated trials where you carefully note the results of the tests and then correlate those to the subsequent "outcome" (edge). Yes, it starts off a bit "trial and error", but once you find a combination of test results that produce a shaveable edge you will hopefully find that you can direct your subsequent efforts in more fruitful directions (where the tests are concerned), and ratchet your way up toward the most efficient methods for you.

That, I think, is where the pros shine - they know their test/edge correlations, and they know how to hone to get the test results necessary to move them up the grits quickly and efficiently. And that is why, again in my opinion, good honing is as much about (if not more about) experience than talent. And experience only comes with time.

James.

Excellent post Jimbo!

Agreed with all of that. Particularly the part about experience over talent. I don't see talent there, just hundreds (or thousands) of hours of dedicated experience, and a delicate touch when necessary.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

That is a good idea to try, I suspect that there might be another issue at work here but you are thinking correctly on the process..

This is not your first razor you have honed.

Have you had the same problem on other razors

Another thought is to add or subtract slurry on the Chosera 1k

Could you let us know what this other issue would be? I think ezpz is trying to debug my honing as we were discussing this on the chat. I have already gotten a bit further when Lynn told me that he uses about 20lbs of pressure with the bevel setting circles. I cant even put that much pressure on the razor. I was using anything between 0-2lbs and trying out different things but nothing seemed to work. I was basing this on another thread where a bunch of guys told what kind of pressure they were using. I tried heavy pressure this morning and things started really progressing. Everything seems to point in the direction that my bevel is actually coming together now. Now I need to work on nice and even strokes.

I also noticed that my chosera was glazed. The slurry stone did wonders to it.

Mikko,

One thing I have always said is "When you hit a brick wall in honing" first take a breath and walk away

But when you sit back down, change something to get the steel to budge..

Add or subtract slurry
Go up or down one stone
Change stokes
Add or subtract a layer of tape
Clean the hone
Add or subtract water or oil
At the higher grit and a microchipping issue strop the razor after each stone


These are just some sugestions in no set order