Thread: I need some Coticule help

I have a 50 x 175mm coticule and I was going to use it as a finisher. I used my Dovo Carre, that had a very sharp Naniwa SS edge, as my test razor. My first try was with just water, I think I did 40 light laps. I did 60 laps on linen and 100 on horse hide. I shaved with it and thought "It feels dull...more laps should make it better" I got an ok shave with it.

I went back to the coticule and did 40 more laps, 60 linen and 100 horse hide. I shaved with it again and got a better shave but the Naniwa edge gave me a much closer shave.

So I went back to the coticule again but this time I used a light slurry. It looked like 2% milk and I used a slurry stone to make it. I did 30 light laps and noticed the slurry was only light gray (slow cutter?). I then sprayed the slurry with water one time every 10 laps until the slurry was clear. I then washed the coticule and the razor and used just water for about 80 laps. I did notice the razor "sticking" while I was doing the stroke away from me (that never happened with the Naniwa SS) but It was smooth as I did the stroke towards me.

I did my usual strop routine and even tried a HHT. It failed badly but I shaved with it anyway. That thing was pulling all through my first pass. I had to do a lot more work on my third pass than usual. It gave me a poor shave

What should I do?

RC,

I've not heard of many guys that get a coti and have instant success. They seem to take more finesse than synthetics. I had a hard time with them. I can still get a better edge on several other stones, though twice I got an edge that would rival my jnat. That was satisfying.
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Process Observations:
Slurry - 2% Milk consistency is not light. With some fast cutting coties it might be lower than a 4k grit.
"Sprayed" the slurry w/ water. You're right to dilute the slurry, but I'm hearing a squirt from a spray bottle & that would be way too fast a dilution. 50x175 - two drops would be closer. Its a slower process.

As an alternative, you might want to see Lynn's vid on honing w/ a coti. I haven't seen or tried a method that is faster - and on many blades - it gave results in the top 15% of coti edges for me. Its mostly circles.

As a variation, if the edge is close, but could be a little better, try some backstrokes (spine leading) at the end of each sequence of circle - using Lynn's method. and/or put on a single layer of elec. tape for your last 10 or so strokes. The backstroke has helped me a number of times & I now use it regularly.

Originally Posted by pinklather

RC,

I've not heard of many guys that get a coti and have instant success. They seem to take more finesse than synthetics. I had a hard time with them. I can still get a better edge on several other stones, though twice I got an edge that would rival my jnat. That was satisfying.
.
Process Observations:
Slurry - 2% Milk consistency is not light. With some fast cutting coties it might be lower than a 4k grit.
"Sprayed" the slurry w/ water. You're right to dilute the slurry, but I'm hearing a squirt from a spray bottle & that would be way too fast a dilution. 50x175 - two drops would be closer. Its a slower process.

As an alternative, you might want to see Lynn's vid on honing w/ a coti. I haven't seen or tried a method that is faster - and on many blades - it gave results in the top 15% of coti edges for me. Its mostly circles.

As a variation, if the edge is close, but could be a little better, try some backstrokes (spine leading) at the end of each sequence of circle - using Lynn's method. and/or put on a single layer of elec. tape for your last 10 or so strokes. The backstroke has helped me a number of times & I now use it regularly.

Thanks for the help. I just watched Lynn's video and tried to repeat the process. The razor is popping arm hair but won't catch hair med length. Maybe I made the slurry too thick? I'll use drops of water instead of a spray from the water bottle. My Naniwa SS are looking better and better but I'll keep at it with the coticule.

Which Naniwa were you coming off of?

Also, coticules are generally known for producing an edge that shaves very "smoothly." My experience has been that other finishers give "sharper" edges.

Originally Posted by holli4pirating

Which Naniwa were you coming off of?

Also, coticules are generally known for producing an edge that shaves very "smoothly." My experience has been that other finishers give "sharper" edges.

I did a small 5k & 8k pyramid, 20 laps on a 10k and then 20 laps on a 12k. That was 7 shaves ago.

This isn't what people like to read maybe. But I'd never follow a Naniwa 12k with a coticule. Your edge is as good as it'll get. The odds of your coticule improving that edge are very small. If you want a coticule edge, stop at 8k and move to coticule. If you want a sharp razor, use the Naniwa. Some guys LOVE coticules. I assume they don't use much of anything else. Others, are a little more lukewarm about coticules...I assume those people have used other stones. Anyhow, keep at it. At some point, you'll decide whether your coticule is capable of doing what you're asking it to do. If it is, then great....you figured it out. If not, well...don't be too surprised.

I'd bet the stiction your feeling on the "away" stroke is a result of greater pressure being applied, than on the return stroke. 30 slurried strokes giving swarf tells me your stone is pretty aggressive. I have coticules that won't create swarf in 60 strokes. And ofc, this is all just me guessing. Maybe something here will help. Or maybe not. Best of luck!

Clarity edit: I meant to say that if you've become accustomed to a Naniwa 12k edge, then the coticule edge will probably seem dull to you. This has been my experience. Test group consisting of 20+ vintage coticule stones,only two of which labeled as razor hones ,over about a 6-9 month period of die hard coticule love, followed by a switch to an all synthetic progression. I tried for a long time..got the synthetics..never went back, except for comparisons sake. Haven't yet found a coticule edge I preferred over other available options.

Originally Posted by rcavazos1922

I have a 50 x 175mm coticule and I was going to use it as a finisher. I used my Dovo Carre, that had a very sharp Naniwa SS edge, as my test razor. My first try was with just water, I think I did 40 light laps. I did 60 laps on linen and 100 on horse hide. I shaved with it and thought "It feels dull...more laps should make it better" I got an ok shave with it.

I went back to the coticule and did 40 more laps, 60 linen and 100 horse hide. I shaved with it again and got a better shave but the Naniwa edge gave me a much closer shave.

So I went back to the coticule again but this time I used a light slurry. It looked like 2% milk and I used a slurry stone to make it. I did 30 light laps and noticed the slurry was only light gray (slow cutter?). I then sprayed the slurry with water one time every 10 laps until the slurry was clear. I then washed the coticule and the razor and used just water for about 80 laps. I did notice the razor "sticking" while I was doing the stroke away from me (that never happened with the Naniwa SS) but It was smooth as I did the stroke towards me.

I did my usual strop routine and even tried a HHT. It failed badly but I shaved with it anyway. That thing was pulling all through my first pass. I had to do a lot more work on my third pass than usual. It gave me a poor shave

What should I do?

With finishing with a coti make sure you use electrical tape on the spine. And just use water. No slurry. Until it passes the HHT then strop and shave.

I've managed to get hold of a vintage barbers coticule and currently practicing on it. Not quite there yet but Gary has honed my razors with a coti and man are they smooth shavers. That's why my face ruled in favour of them The razor was bought and honed before it was sent out and it was definitely sharp but my face seems to prefer the smooth coti edge instead of the sharper edge. Personally that Sheffield razors seem far smoother on the coti compared to the Dovo BQ.

I'm still learning the slurry but apart from setting a bevel, I'll be using the one coti from that to finish.

I recently made a little stir on other forums by mentioning how I use my coticules. I make slurry on the stone, make sure it is wet and just start honing on X strokes. I then dip the slurry stone and refresh the slurry on the dirty old slurry. All you need to do is keep the stone wet. Very simple.

I found it funny that this was considered odd on other forums because this is how we all did coticules back in the day(like 2008 lol).

Before all the terms...methods, cot this and cot that, we used them and they worked. I get wonderful edges on slurry as long as its wet. No dilution...no tape..etc. Thats how Liam does it in his video, thats how lxemergency did it...Im not knocking newer methods but I did find it odd that what I said I do now is being called"undilucot"!

Originally Posted by Disburden

I recently made a little stir on other forums by mentioning how I use my coticules.

Don't know if it is true but I heard they burned you in effigy at the recent razor meet .......