Thread: I need some Coticule help

Originally Posted by rcavazos1922

I thought all coticules could be a finisher?

You can use a 1k as a finisher too but there are limits to the stone & maybe your skill. Being natural Coticules will vary.

Onimaru makes a good point about the stone's finishing capability. After trying 4 cotis - 2-petit blanches, a veinette a dressante, only twice did the edge come close to the edge of a jnat. That led me to ask some experienced coti users how many they bought and sold before finding the one(s) that made them happy. The smallest number I got was 30-40. The highest number was 130. At that point I decided I'd gone far enough w/ cotis. Now that doesn't mean I sold them off and don't use them. I use them quite regularly. I just continue to other stones after the coti. One petit blanche is wonderfully fast, and I use that to get an 8k edge fast. The veinette is a large (2.5"x10.5") and good for making sure a bevel is well set, using 45 deg. heel-leading strokes. The 6x2 dressante is portable and prob the finest finish.

One prev. poster mentioned that he wouldn't use a coti after a Nani 10 or 12. Its been done to good effect, but requires a VERY light touch - so as not to degrade that Nani sharpness.

As I mentioned earlier, I'm no coti pro, but I sure talk to alot of guys that reach for other stones when they want final sharpness.

Originally Posted by pinklather

The veinette is a large (2.5"x10.5") and good for making sure a bevel is well set, using 45 deg. heel-leading strokes.

This is my point. My Veinette was sold to me as a fast finisher. They all vary & I even sometimes use my Veinette slurry stone on a synthetic 1k bevel setter.

Not all Coticules are finishers. Back in the day when getting a barber shave was a fairly normal occurence,, many barbers preferred a good finish coticule to refresh their razors because the finished edge gave a smooth shave.

Some of the guys who hone for members nowadays finish on a coticule to achieve that same smooth shave that old time barbers preferred. If I would need to send my razors out to be honed, I would prefer that the edge would give a smooth shave as opposed to a sharper but harsher edge. We all like the razor to glide across our face.

Jerry
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As regularjoe said your 12k Niawia edge is finer than the coticule edge, except in well experienced hands and not in all cases. That is the mystery of natural stones. Coticules, of all naturals seem to have the most difficult learning curve and there seems to be a love hate relationship with them. You will love them or hate them.

On the other hand the Niawia 12k is the Honda Accord of finishing stone. They just work… almost every time for almost everyone. You can squeak out a bit more from them with practice.

I recommend learning the nuances of the12k, then branch out to the Coticules. The coticule is a different edge, not necessarily a sharper edge. I own several Coticules and prefer a Thüringen, Black or Translucent Arkansas to the coticule. As naturals they do seem easier to learn and consistent in performance.

Your other almost bullet proof option is paste.

It is personal preference and experience.

Somethings I have learned by honing a few razors

There is no "Magical" stone the magic is in the hands

Synthetic Hones are more consistent then Natural Stones

There is only so much "Edge" left after the 8k level so choose your next step wisely

Certain Stones/Hones work better with Certain razors

Natural stones are a Romance that need plenty of courting to bloom

Someplace around 100 different razors finished on a new natural I begin to think I know the stone, after another 100 I realize what I didn't know before...

and finally a quote from Lynn

"The more razors you hone, the better you get at honing"

Very wise words there by Glen, always remember them when using natural stones!

That said, I LOVE my Coticule edges, they may not be as sharp as a high grit synthetic edge but they are more than capable of shaving even the toughest beards. A high grit synthetic edge will be shiny like a mirror while a Coticule edge will be very hazy.
That synthetic edge will be sharp as can be but also unforgiving it will cut flesh just as easy as it cuts hair so you have to be very careful using them. This is where the Coticule edge shines, it will cut the beard without dragging and leaves nothing behind but at the same time it almost refuses to cut into the skin, it doesn't FEEL sharp but it leaves the face smooth and without hair.
I can shave my face with a Coticule edge very carelessly and not get cut, wouldn't try that with a synthetic or JNAT edge...
Like Glen said above, not all razors may like the Coticule, I have a stainless Dovo that really doesn't like my Coticules (at least not in MY hands and on MY Coticules) so I use a Naniwa or a JNAT on that one.
Although a Coticule was my first hone it took me the longest to learn how to use it, I bought the Naniwas and a JNAT and had almost instant success with them long before I finally figured this Coticule out but ever since I did I really love the smooth comfortable edges they give me.
When learning how to use a Coticule I suggest you read ALL the articles on http://www.coticule.be and start from there and also get a beater razor (an ugly one but one that will take an edge) and keep practicing.

I tried using the Coticule again and failed again. I think the hardest part is controlling the slurry. I'm going to set the bevel on 2 razors today using my Naniwas and I'm going to add the Dovo Carre that I've been using on the Coticule. I'm going to try a different razor on the Coticule. It probably won't help but I need to change things up.

I was so mad after I made my last post I went back to the coticule to give it another try. This time I made my heavy slurry like my medium slurry and started from there. When I reached the just water stage I repositioned the coticule from North and South to East and West. Then did 90 super light laps and did my usual post honing strop routine. I tried a HHT and it cut the hair every once in awhile...now and again...when the wind was right. I'll shave with it later on today but I don't have high hopes.

Before I begin I want to say I don't want to offend anybody because I know people love their Coticules but this just happened to me so I thought I would share the story. This is just one man's opinion.

I shaved with the razor I used on my Coticule earlier and got a bad shave. I was really disappointed and decided to leave the house for awhile. I went to my local barber for a haircut. I then thought "he's old, he must know about Coticules!"

Me: Hey, I use a straight razor to shave and I just got a coticule but I'm getting crappy shaves off of it. Got any advice?

Old Barber: You use Straights? Well... you need to know your coticule and keep your forearm straight.

Me: yea...I heard that before. I got some Naniwa SS and I can get a good edge off of them but that coticule...

Old Barber: Oooh...you know about the Super Stones?

Me: yea..I got a full set at home

Old Barber: Then you're set! They're great...throw that other junk away. With Coticules you got to guess at them and if you don't guess right you got to start all over again. Keep the Super Stones...You'll have less frustration in your life.

Me: