Thread: Frustrated with 1K bevel

Some pictures of the Razor,
posting for gearhead222.

Hi Gearhead

I have read through the posts in this thread with much interest. I would like to suggest viewing some o the excellent YouTube videos that deal with honing straight razors. Some of our most experienced members have made some very good videos that may help you gain some better insight into honing razors. In particular look for videos by gssixgun and Lynn Abrams. These are some of the best instructional videos you will see. If you want something explained better, you can always pm them any questions you may have. Also have a look in the SRP Wiki, it also has heaps of great information.

Hang in there and enjoy the ride

FWIW I honed a wedge last night and today. The blade had a small chip in the edge. I started with 800 wet and dry sandpaper wrapped around the Norton 4/8. I did only a little bit on that and then went straight o the 4k. I did circles for an hour. Seriously. I possibly over honed it a tad. I did create a bit of hone wear, and in hindsight feel I should have used tape all the way. Normally I DO use tape, but it was wearing really fast.

This morning I did a pyramid on the 4/8 (20 x 4, 20 x 8, 19 x 4, 20 x 8, 18 x 4 20 x 8 etc) all the way to 1 x 4, 20 x 8). This morning, though I DID use tape. I realise I was creating a secondary bevel but that's fine by me. I don't really care what the bevel LOOKS like, only what it FEELS like.

I needed to rock the blade a little to get the heel; and the toe. I didn't worry a lot about the toe, though, as I don't really use the toe while shaving. I mainly use the belly and the heel. I tried to get a nice bevel on the heel; and had to concentrate on that a bit; even doing circles on the 8k for a while to get the toe. I don't use a microscope or loupe; just an old magnifying glass. It shaved leg hair last night. After some more patination forcing (the honing wore some of the previous forced patina (lemon, vinegar and lime)) off I finished with 20 laps on the Shapton 16 k.

the IMPORTANT thing for me is to know I'm not finished. I shaved with it; and it was nice, but as I'd already shaved that day it wasn't a real test. I know and accept that I'll need to keep on this razor; maybe over the weeks and months.

Don't try to get it 100% in one go. Give it a while. Keep working on it. I rotate 6 razors normally, and one (my De Pews) has been in a constant state of honing for maybe a year. I don't mind if when I use it it's not 100%. It just gives me something to DO later.

Also, keep a honing journal. Keep track of what you do. It'll allow you to work out what works and what doesn't and also allow you to give well considered advice to others in the future...

I offer this only as my experience, I realise I do a LOT that is not standard practice, but for me it works...

Originally Posted by gearhead222

Will see if I can take some pics and post. Does 1-3 layers of tape change the angle of the bevel enough that it can shorten honing time? Are you , in essence, starting from square one again with creating a new bevel? Are these questions feasable, or are there just too many variables to provide an answer? Never honed with tape before, but being a newbie, I'm open to anything with this razor-Gearhead

My opinion is going from no tape (or one layer for instance) to tape (or more than one if you started with one) will create a secondary bevel. I can SEE that on the wedge I honed (starting with no tape for bevel setting). IMO doing this is OK, but you don't want to do the opposite (i.e. using tape to going to no tape). Doing that will just polish the SIDES of the bevel, not the actual bevel (i.e. where the sides meet). In my opinion, there's not a lot wrong with a secondary bevel as long as the bevel meets in a nicely polished edge, but that's just my opinion.

I mean, as far as I see it, all we're doing is ensuring the edge meets neatly (and smoothly) all the way along the edge we use, what is does AWAY from the edge is pretty immaterial... The rest is just aesthetics.

Dear Ricky and Carmalo-FWIW, I have viewed some of Gssixguns and Lynss videos until my eyes bled-took note also! Have read parts of the SRP wiki and also have talked to Start Shaving Supplies, Max, Sham, Lynn, PFries, Regularjoe and some other people-all very helpful. I have a notebook that's about 1/2 inch thick already.I DO think that ordering the Chosera will be a big step in the right direction, because i have just started using the 1K and was shocked at how slowly the Norton 1K cuts and how thirsty it is, even after I lapped the HELL out of it and got a smooth surface! Thankfully, most of my practice blades are inexpensive and some have flattened spines, so I do not use and do not plan to use tape-it's just another factor to confuse this newbie.
I do apppreciate all of the forums help-I realize that this is a slowly acquired skill and that every blade is different. Thankfully, Sham has a lifetime honing warranty on his blades, as the wedge I bought from him will never see me trying to hone it!
Will keep you all updated-gotta go to the salt mines again. We have a 6 man crew at work and our only plumber retired. Our night shift man's dad just died and the one new guy is still training on day shift. Now, instead of having a coworker to help me on evenings from 15-2300 in a 100 bed hospital, it's just me for most of the week! Pays well, but I feel like a live at the place. Take care all-Gearhead

Hi Gearhead,

Whereabouts are you located? Perhaps there's someone nearby who could take a look at it and give some pointers in person.

There is a 'Local Help' list in the Wiki:

Local Help - Straight Razor Place Wiki

Great! Will give it a shot-Gearhead-UPDATE-Tried , but nobody near Austin, Texas in the list

Originally Posted by gearhead222

Dear Charles-Thanx for a great explanation! Will definitely take advantage of that light source, although a bright desk lamp tells me that the edge is not excessively dull-just not as sharp as I would like. Some of my razors pass the HHT and some don't-this one doesn't
Finally got the 8K properly lapped by putting it in the sink and using Gssixgguns technique. Wondering if my Norton 1K needs more lapping, as it seems to be really rough and not cutting as well as my 4K and especially the 8K! Tried honing another razor on the 1K and did not seem to be making any progress, so I jumped up to the 4K and then the 8K and was able to shave arm hair! Mind you, I began honing using just the Norton 4K and 8K, so maybe the 1K needs more lapping. These Norton stones sure need prepping to work right, that is for certain! Glad I took the members advice and bought a DMT 325. The Norton lapping stone pales by comparison-Gearhead

FWIW, I have never had success with the Norton 1k. No idea why, but cannot get the 1K to have any beneficial effect on any of my razors. I set the bevel using Lynn's method which you can find on youtube (the 40 circles back and forth, with 10-15 x strokes after each set). I can hone the 3 razors I own using this method. So if I was you, I think I would dull the razor on a glass, and try the 4k for bevel setting and move onto a pyramid after that with 4k/8k. Best of luck

Daniel

Dear Daniel-Spoke with a forum member who instructed me to lap the heck out of my 1K to get rid of the excessive graininess, as it wasn't cutting at all. Did so with 320 grit sandpaper on a Formica top and followed that with my DMT 325 to bevel the edges. Now it is cutting, but is a very thirsty and slow stone, compared to my 4K/8K Norton.
Thanx again for the post , as I will be using my 4K/8K after my 1K is sold
Will keep you all posted-Geared

Just an FYI, The nature of the Norton 1K stone is to be thirsty and very abrasive. Some people love it and more people don't. It is an inexpensive bevel setter and that is about it.

I think one of the reasons people recommend junk razors to learn how to hone on is because of stones like this. Most new people expect pretty quick results and will overthink, overanyalyze and overhone while blaming everything on everything other than the fact, that honing takes practice. Usually, the more people press, the worse the results are. This is also why even when people start having some success after a few razors they start to realize they don't know what they don't know.

We all have many preferences for different stones and processes. Some of us have tried a lot of stones on thousands of razors. Some have tried a few stones with a few razors. Add the conflicting information out there and personal agendas and it simply boils down to trying one method and stone until or get it or keep buying other stones until you get one that works and it will become your favorite, even though it may be one either I or someone else would ever recommend.

Hang in there. There have been several get togethers in Houston and I think other places in TX. Keep an eye out for these as even when you learn to hone, your level of improvement after meeting some of the guys and getting some hands on help will only increase your skills and someone will be able to see what you might be doing incorrectly or make recommendations for what you could do a little better.

Have fun.

Originally Posted by gearhead222

Dear Daniel-Spoke with a forum member who instructed me to lap the heck out of my 1K to get rid of the excessive graininess, as it wasn't cutting at all. Did so with 320 grit sandpaper on a Formica top and followed that with my DMT 325 to bevel the edges. Now it is cutting, but is a very thirsty and slow stone, compared to my 4K/8K Norton.
Thanx again for the post , as I will be using my 4K/8K after my 1K is sold
Will keep you all posted-Geared