Thread: So what now!?

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Sounds like too much of a good thing. Everyone has given you great advice. As Unit pointed out. the 3/8 and then shave. If it isn't shaving well off of the 8k going up the grit ladder is not what you want to do. More on the 3/8 is the ticket ...... assuming the bevel is properly set. When you can get a nice smooth shave at 8k then go on up one step at a time.

Thanks Jimmy, I shouldn't be jumping the gun so quickly I guess!

Originally Posted by mainaman

You should be able to feel the slurry change as you hone on it, the sound while honing will also change it will become less audible.
Did you smooth your hone well by the way?

Btw I smoothed it very well-- lapped it twice and took off the sharp edges and sides as we'll.

Originally Posted by anthogia

Stupid question, besides making sure the bevel has been set by not seeing a reflection, what am i wxactly looking for under magnification?

On the contrary, it is a good question because having a bright light and a loupe doesn't get you very far when you don't know what you are looking for. With a 10X loupe, several things will be apparent.

1. You'll be able to visualize the sides of the bevel, see how regular it is and whether there are residual scratches left in it by earlier stones. I wouldn't worry about the scratches because I would claim they won't affect the shave at all.

2. You will be able to see if there are any little "dents" or "nicks" in the edge. These would normally show up as reflections if the edge is held upward toward the light, but sometimes they are small enough to be invisible with the naked eye. They are signs of damage that has not been removed by honing and thus the bevel has not been completely set.

3. You can literally "see" whether the bevel extends through the edge, meaning the bevel has been completely set. You will often find evidence of prior bevel sets, double bevels, incomplete bevels, etc.

4. The value of visual testing is that, at least at the start of your honing career, you will learn more by seeing the bevel and edge than you will from the various tests already mentioned. This is not because they are not good tests, but because they require considerable experience and "feel" to make judgments about the edge. You will develop that eventually, although I have given up on all that and just look at the edge.

5. While unfortunately controversial on this forum, if you practice, perfect and use the HHT by really working on it, it may become your best "test". It takes time and practice and usage of a variety of hairs. Most on here have used it one time, couldn't get it to work and have given up on it. I worked at it until I understood it. Without it, I would not know when to stop honing, when I had done enough. I can now take any razor, a couple hairs, and tell exactly how well that razor will shave. When a razor does well on MY HHT, it always shaves beautifully. It took me a month of practice to get there, but now it is infallible for me. I check bevels by looking to see if they are complete, and I check edges with MY HHT. If you need help with this, you can PM me.

Originally Posted by ace

On the contrary, it is a good question because having a bright light and a loupe doesn't get you very far when you don't know what you are looking for. With a 10X loupe, several things will be apparent.

1. You'll be able to visualize the sides of the bevel, see how regular it is and whether there are residual scratches left in it by earlier stones. I wouldn't worry about the scratches because I would claim they won't affect the shave at all.

2. You will be able to see if there are any little "dents" or "nicks" in the edge. These would normally show up as reflections if the edge is held upward toward the light, but sometimes they are small enough to be invisible with the naked eye. They are signs of damage that has not been removed by honing and thus the bevel has not been completely set.

3. You can literally "see" whether the bevel extends through the edge, meaning the bevel has been completely set. You will often find evidence of prior bevel sets, double bevels, incomplete bevels, etc.

4. The value of visual testing is that, at least at the start of your honing career, you will learn more by seeing the bevel and edge than you will from the various tests already mentioned. This is not because they are not good tests, but because they require considerable experience and "feel" to make judgments about the edge. You will develop that eventually, although I have given up on all that and just look at the edge.

5. While unfortunately controversial on this forum, if you practice, perfect and use the HHT by really working on it, it may become your best "test". It takes time and practice and usage of a variety of hairs. Most on here have used it one time, couldn't get it to work and have given up on it. I worked at it until I understood it. Without it, I would not know when to stop honing, when I had done enough. I can now take any razor, a couple hairs, and tell exactly how well that razor will shave. When a razor does well on MY HHT, it always shaves beautifully. It took me a month of practice to get there, but now it is infallible for me. I check bevels by looking to see if they are complete, and I check edges with MY HHT. If you need help with this, you can PM me.

Thanks ace,- you have provided me with invaluable information and I appreciate it!

Ace makes some good points. I would clarify #1 that the scratches are not a big factor as long as they do not extend to the edge. This gets at the concept of smoothness.

The intersection of a scratch and the edge forms a scallop in the edge. I envision these as tiny serrations creating an aggressive edge that we generally do not want on our faces.

That said, with enough magnification, all edges look like scratched up torture devices...but you hopefully appreciate my point. You will quickly learn that your face probably can tell the difference in scratches that your eye cannot detect without magnification.

This thread is shaping up to be a nice collection of resources

It really is a very valuable resource, that I never expected to receive so much feedback. Thanks to everyone and I will keep everyone posted when I shave!

Originally Posted by anthogia

It really is a very valuable resource, that I never expected to receive so much feedback. Thanks to everyone and I will keep everyone posted when I shave!

I might add that I have a baby's amount of whiskers on my face, they just don't grow in quick or long so the shave will not take place until at least tonight or tomorrow.

So here's my game plan for you all, I am going to test shave each side of my face with each one of the razors, if they are not shave ready then I will go back to the stones- the 4k and work in a progression through the 8k, as seen in one of glens videos on naniwa progression method which I watched last night when I was studying for all this-lol. At the same time I will be using aces microscope method. And I will get it shave ready from the 8k ONLY and then we can talk about moving up in grit! However, this is all just idle banter if they are both producing good shaves- then I will keep doing what I did- either way you guys have really helped me off of a ledge and I want to thank everyone again!

Sounds like a solid plan. If I may suggest (why should I shut up now? LOL) look at the edge under a scope/loupe after the shave, then go to the 8K for a stroke or two, then look again to gain understanding of just how big an 8K scratch is, then go to the 4 and do the same.

If you did a good job of polishing the bevels, they should serve as great canvas for illustrating the scale of these scratch patterns. Working backwards is a great opportunity to learn (regardless of how good your shaves turn out to be).

Side note: anthogia, unit, ace - hard to describe coherently, but you show best of attitudes and real help. The stuff that makes this place so fine.

Anthogia, I seem to remember there are more than a few members withing striking distance of your area. New York members: anyone nearby that could share an hour or two of face to face time for tutorial help here? 'Seems like a guy w/ an excellent attitude here would benefit from the time. 'Hard to overstate how helpful this could be.