Thread: My first hone result with pictures

Originally Posted by kwlfca

I would listen to everyone's advice here if I were you. I can tell you, as someone who's recently started to hone and can finally get an edge that will shave somewhat decently, my edge is still crap compared to an edge that someone more experienced can get.
In regards to two handed honing, IIRC Glen hones with two hands but only uses the second hand to guide. Speaking as someone who also uses two hands for the exact same reason as you described, pressure is something that you will have to CONSTANTLY be aware of. You need to make sure that your second hand isn't using any pressure...sounds obvious, I know, but it's REALLY easy to let your hands do their own thing instead of focusing on the evenness of your honing stroke. Your guiding hand needs to be like a feather, just hardly there, otherwise you'll wear the toe more than the heel and then you'll be wishing you didn't use your prized razor to learn to hone on! :P I wish you the best of luck. Learning to hone is a huge pain that is at times full of hours of backbreaking frustration (my table is low :P ) but at the end it's a sweet feeling when you get an edge that you can shave with comfortably!
Have fun!

I hear you. Yes I am trying to take it all in. I have received a lot of good advice thanks to all. It has reset my mind with the correct approach.
I shaved again with the edge you saw on the picture (without re-hone yet) just to have 2 shave tests on it. It felt harsher than yesterday and left me with some hurt skin. It feels as far from a good shave as it looks on these picture.

I am now learning to stroke on the 2000 hone with zero pressure. I balanced the center of gravity of the razor between index and thumb and took 40 seconds to do 1 stroke . Doing it so slowly i got the exact feeling of the edge staying perfectly parallel. The water suction on the edge helped. I repeated this on both sides for the next hour (0 pressure and zero mistakes). I used slurry. My plan is to keep doing this for as many days as it takes to get the bevel to pass HHT. As of now it fails HHT but passes AHT close to the skin.

I am sure my blade has no nicks, but I think looking at it while I was going I think it is arched like a bow. It seemed that the toe was not making full contact with the stone on one side. I could be wrong on that. I will try the pen test to see if that is the case.

Originally Posted by sunsweet

I hear you. Yes I am trying to take it all in. I have received a lot of good advice thanks to all. It has reset my mind with the correct approach.
I shaved again with the edge you saw on the picture (without re-hone yet) just to have 2 shave tests on it. It felt harsher than yesterday and left me with some hurt skin. It feels as far from a good shave as it looks on these picture.

I am now learning to stroke on the 2000 hone with zero pressure. I balanced the center of gravity of the razor between index and thumb and took 40 seconds to do 1 stroke . Doing it so slowly i got the exact feeling of the edge staying perfectly parallel. The water suction on the edge helped. I repeated this on both sides for the next hour (0 pressure and zero mistakes). I used slurry. My plan is to keep doing this for as many days as it takes to get the bevel to pass HHT. As of now it fails HHT but passes AHT close to the skin.

I am sure my blade has no nicks, but I think it looking at it while I was going slowly I think it is arched like a bow. I could be wrong on that. I will try the pen test to see if that is the case.

You're on the right path. One thing I'd look for is making sure it will pass the AHT on the entirety of the blade. Sometimes, the heel or toe or somewhere is off. Don't worry about the HHT at this point, just worry about AHT all along the blade. Based on what you said about it already passing the AHT already (making sure it's consistent, again: important), I'd stop using slurry and do a few laps with just water. I would then go to your 6K shapton and work on the edge there to get it ready for the 12K. Try to smooth the edge as much as you can is basically when you want to do. You're edge will improve and be able to cut arm hair even easier at this point. Then use the 12K to polish it up. Make sure that you do those light, no pressure, strokes on the 6 and the 12. Each stone should get you cetting hair easier and easier.
Also, don't worry about the arm baldness :P
I have the Naniwa 12K as well, just be sure that you give it a quick lap before each time you use it. They're kind of soft so you want to be sure it stays flat, plus they tend to glaze a bit so you want to be sure you have fresh media to get an even hone each session. You'll get a bit of slurry from the stone when you lap it too. I like to use the slurry and then slowly dilute it with water every 15 strokes or so. Once the bevel is nice and shiny, give it a careful stropping and see how the edge feels!

Following the good advices I have completely changed my strategy. I am now focusing on absolute no pressure strokes with index and thumb at the center of gravity of the razor going verrry slowly for about 25 minutes. Same razor ( i have no other razor) limited edition Thier Issard. This passes AHT but not HHT yet. Luckily I got my Belomo 20X loupe in the mail today so here are some pictures for your enjoyment. Remember this is after the chocera 2000 only. No other hones yet. I started with a slurry and diluted it as I went. Never using any pressure. Used one hand only.
One thing I noticed is the bevel is wider at the center and heel than at the toe. Would this indicate there is a curvature in the edge ?
The yellowish powder is leftover slurry on the blade.

Two things that seem to be very hard for new guys to understand..

1. Pressure, Too light means that the edge is not in equal contact with the hone, too heavy means the fine edge is flexing, watching the water in front of the edge helps immensely with adjusting the pressure, There is also the concept of Torque, toward the edge that makes the honing stroke way more effective.. All this come with practice.. The Magic marker test is also very helpful with finding how the razor is touching the hone, and what movement you need to do to cover the entire edge equally and evenly

2. When to stop, One of the best comments I read on SRP over the years was "I can hone just fine I just need to know when to stop" can't remember who wrote it but it sure is a truth..


By dropping down into the 2k range you changed things from a simple Re-fresh to actual honing so all these thing come into play now...

Thanks Glen your points are right on target and carefully noted. I could actually visually see that the edge was higher up at the toe than in the middle on one side of the edge but i sticked to no pressure and parallel for that session because I wanted to learn one variable at a time. Trying to control two things would have jammed my not so sensitive starting honing skills. I am going to look at the water more.
For the torque method is this done by creating a slight rotational pressure at the scales using fingertips or is it applied between index and thumb ?

2. I was thinking of going on until the 2k passes the HHT. Now in view of your comment I can either go up to 6k and 12k or continue on the 2k trying out some light pressure. Which direction do you recommend ?

I have been stroping this blade for over 6 months. It was rolling on my skin like a squeegee. The edge was so thin and weakened that it would only shave with pressure. Are you saying that it could have been refreshed ? The 2k owns that blade for now. But still interested to know the could have been.

The HHT is about useless unless you have taken the time to calibrate it to your hair with a known edge, a new DE edge can sometimes help with this

Here is what I use for tests as I hone

Bevel setting stages the TNT first to make sure the bevel is set and smooth, then a few laps later the AHT and TPT to verify the bevel.. It is good if all these work, but often one will end up working best for you.. All these are backed up with frequent visual checks under a well lit loupe, the only thing that is important is that you work out a system that is foolproof for you to KNOW the bevel is set

Once I have a positive Bevel set then life it good to go I move up through the grits and get lighter and lighter as I move up..
I really don't test again until the shave test after I strop..


As to whether the edge could have been refreshed??? it is hard to tell, normally either dropping two grits ranges or using slurry to accomplish the same will work for me on a simple re-fresh...
There are so many variables though, I hate to "Put a number" on something like that, you really won't know until you try some different techniques.. Reading your OP it looks like you basically tried that with the 6k and 12k so at least you went that direction...

Alan aka AFdavis has a really nice way of wording it by saying to start at the top and only move down one small step at a time, only he says it way better then I just did


Once you get the edge to pop though all this is going to get really easy, only the first few times are hard, then things start to make sense, after that only problem razors are a pain ...

We all develop our own tests, there is really no wrong answers as long as it works. I test on my arm hair, if it cuts VERY easily off the 1k I move up, as the edge progesses it will cut easier and more silently, when it's ready it will almost be silent across the whole blade surface and treetop the hair. That's how I test and I have a very mangy left arm to prove it!! lol


The way I refresh a known good but tugging edge is I'll first try my CrOx paddle->strop->shave test, if that fails then my finishing hone->CrOx->strop->shave test, if that still fails then my Norton 4k/8k->finisher->CrOx-> strop-> shave test

Find somebody who is more BEVEL crazy than I am. I dare ya...........!

The absolute starting point for honing any blade is the 100% complete bevel set. I have proven this to myself over and over. Please believe that.

Jerry
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Originally Posted by BobH

Without trying to be too blunt, I think you have made a huge mistake by trying to hone a "limited edition $400 Thier Issard" razor as your first victim in learning to hone. I would encourage you to just send it out to have it professionally honed and find a more suitable razor to learn honing on.

Bob

You probably haven't read what I wrote but there are no mistakes here. This is my razor and its fate is in my hands. Only I will hone it and it will never be sent to a honing service. Again my choice.

Originally Posted by sunsweet

You probably haven't read what I wrote but there are no mistakes here. This is my razor and its fate is in my hands. Only I will hone it and it will never be sent to a honing service. Again my choice.

Certainly, it is your property to do what you want with to be sure, never said otherwise. Still, that does not change that in my opinion attempting to learn to hone on an expensive limited edition razor is a mistake or at least has a high potential to be so. OTH the best of luck in your course of action and you are getting some very good help with it.

Bob