Thread: Complex grinds?

So I have been looking to get some nicer kitchen knives lately and am looking more towards some japanese steel knives. Some of the descriptions on some of these knives are mentioning how the "complex grinds on this knife are really great". What would they mean by that. I am not really familiar with knives too much.

Originally Posted by cosperryan

So I have been looking to get some nicer kitchen knives lately and am looking more towards some japanese steel knives. Some of the descriptions on some of these knives are mentioning how the "complex grinds on this knife are really great". What would they mean by that. I am not really familiar with knives too much.

I don't know about complex grinds, but I live in Japan, and I own some very nice, inexpensive "rustic" stye knives I purchased at a large Japanese "big box" store. All made in Japan of course, and they come in varying grades of finish and appearance, I prefer the simple, high carbon steel type. There is a shape of knife for every purpose here. One blade shape for cutting noodles, one for cutting broccoli/cauliflower, one for slicing meat, another for sashimi, etc etc. I have never paid over $50 for one, and I did buy one which seems not too useful, more like a machete.

Originally Posted by cosperryan

So I have been looking to get some nicer kitchen knives lately and am looking more towards some japanese steel knives. Some of the descriptions on some of these knives are mentioning how the "complex grinds on this knife are really great". What would they mean by that. I am not really familiar with knives too much.

If you could give an example I may be able to help further but most makers have there own particular geometry for their kitchen knives and the varieties are endless!

The best grind in my experience is a knife that is very thin immediately behind the edge but still has some heft at the spine. I also prefer a slightly convex grind (think axe but much thinner) as food is less likely to stick to the blade than on a flat ground knife.

Hope this helps a little

The grind looks like this:



pretty interesting to sharpen on stones as well.

That type of grind is used on traditional knives, gyoto and standard double bevel knives use standard symmetric grind.

This is the exact knife that I am curious about. It is a funayaki. I am guessing that it is a double bevel as it says its from the Tosa Region. So if it is double bevel then what is the complex grind? I know about the single bevel knives and they're interesting grinds and was looking at a couple of single bevel funayakis as well.

Edit: Forgot to add the link.
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/tskakufu16.html

Originally Posted by cosperryan

This is the exact knife that I am curious about. It is a funayaki. I am guessing that it is a double bevel as it says its from the Tosa Region. So if it is double bevel then what is the complex grind? I know about the single bevel knives and they're interesting grinds and was looking at a couple of single bevel funayakis as well.

Edit: Forgot to add the link.
Kajiwara Kurouchi Funayaki 165mm

The description says it is a single bevel knife, so it should have the above posted grind geometry.
Those grinds are tricky to sharpen keep that in mind if you are new to single bevel Japanese knives.

Originally Posted by mainaman

The description says it is a single bevel knife, so it should have the above posted grind geometry.
Those grinds are tricky to sharpen keep that in mind if you are new to single bevel Japanese knives.

"In the Tosa region it became common to give the knives a double bevel and use them as a gyuto would be used. As Kajiwara-san resides in Tosa, his rendition of the funayaki follows in the Tosa tradition"

That right there makes me think it is a double bevel.

Originally Posted by cosperryan

"In the Tosa region it became common to give the knives a double bevel and use them as a gyuto would be used. As Kajiwara-san resides in Tosa, his rendition of the funayaki follows in the Tosa tradition"

That right there makes me think it is a double bevel.

You are correct, it is symmetric, then I am not sure what they mean by complex grind. May be send them a message and ask. The way they describe the knife is confusing IMO. Sounds like one has to know the knife making history of all those regions to figure out what the description means.

Hmmm, impossible to say for sure but my guess would be the forge finished area is flat and the primary bevel (polished area) has a convex grind. Not that 'complex' really but looks like it could be a nice workhorse

Originally Posted by mikew

Hmmm, impossible to say for sure but my guess would be the forge finished area is flat and the primary bevel (polished area) has a convex grind. Not that 'complex' really but looks like it could be a nice workhorse

Exactly what I was thinking. I don't see how complex it would be. It really threw me for a loop. I was starting to think that maybe each bevel is maybe at a different degree but I really have no idea. I have a set of wannabe japanese sushi knives. They are made by Mundial. They don't have the urasaki or a true shingoi and the finish is terrible but I got them as a gift and they are better then all my other knives albeit with some modifications to the angles.