Thread: Japanese Swords

Originally Posted by basil

I've been looking at the lower end models and might end up getting one.

I've been reading alot about the traditional swords and would love to have one one day but alas like you said the price tag is way to high.

Also is it safe to assume that you own a blade since you are looking to get one polished?

no I do not own one, way out of my reach.

Originally Posted by basil

Haha trust me I wonder the same thing.

I was actually wanting to ask you if you had any experience with any Japanese blades.

I know you have experience with the stones and also dealt with various craftsmen. Was wondering if you have ever crossed paths with a sword smith.

I have, briefly. I met and talked to a smith at the Oku-Izumo Sword Museum. He's the current representative of the Kobayashi smiths in Shimane prefecture, but it's only a part-time thing because the demand for swords just isn't what it used to be.

You can read about it here: No Razors, But Still...

Originally Posted by JimR

If they're not made by Japanese people, nor in Japan, not even of Japanese steel...What makes them Japanese?

It's an interesting question that collectors suffer more than the people who work in the craft. You may as well say that the tamahagane I make in my shop is not the real deal as well. I don't have Japanese DNA either and am not a licensed swordsmith having no formal apprenticeship with a Japanese master.

But I have had my steel inspected by the Murage himself and he didn't have any problems with it. Indeed, he was operating a furnace here in the US with Minnesota taconite making sword steel.

I know nihonto tosho who will say they are katana. And call me and several of my friends tosho or katana kaji, Jim. I have showed my stuff, both steel and blades, at shinsa here in the US and the fellows doing the appraisals had no problem with me making a katana or wakizashi or tanto, any blade in that style. One of my good friends has sold his swords into Japan.

Swordsmiths, the shinsa fellows, and the Murage and his crew all bowed to my blades. That should make sense to you since you live there. It means a lot to me.

I don't know how to explain the difference about this subject that my perspective develops. It's a matter of spirit or heart perhaps but also an attitude. Those with the correct spirit, an open mind, respect for the traditions of the craft, the methods, the intent or purpose find themselves welcome in that community with little reservation.

This next is intended to be slightly humourous and serious too. Iron and nickel are the heaviest elements produced in our solar wind. The stuff is falling to earth all the time. The core of this ball of dirt is iron. Chemically iron is iron. Iron is the same the world over.

The iron in steel doesn't care where it comes from. The iron mines in the US were having a very hard time staying in business until the Japanese and Chinese made some serious investments in resurrecting them because their native sources are becoming depleted. This is especially true in Japan. The iron sands used in smelting steel for swords are becoming tough to acquire. Some of this is that the ore is difficult to collect and probably more of a reason, young people are not interested in coming into the crafts to apprentice. (I could make the same case for polishing stones.) There have been smelts done in Japan using Minnesota ores.

Saying that it's all the same common stuff kind of dilutes the cache that makes the Japanese sword something special. But there is nothing special or undiscovered about Japanese irons. It's the craftsmen and their rigorous traditions using essentially primitive methods to produce elegance in execution that makes it special. They are not just striking steel or filing away what is not a blade, nor polishing the steel to bring out the features, they are working on themselves as human beings.

Mike,I can't speak for Jim, but I have issue with all the Chinese reproductions out there not being authentic rather than a quality piece as you or Howard Clark would make.

Originally Posted by onimaru55

I have issue with all the Chinese reproductions out there not being authentic rather than a quality piece as you or Howard Clark would make.

So are you saying that quality is dependant on origin (specifically Chinese = bad)? Seems like a rather large generalization is being made here, rather than a product being judged by it's merits....

I didn't use the word "bad". I said "authentic".

Chinese reproduction Katana can be "good" for cutting exercises, mind you I don't like the balance on some I've tried, but I digress. To use $10k Nihonto for the same thing would be "bad"

Originally Posted by onimaru55

I didn't use the word "bad". I said "authentic".

Chinese reproduction Katana can be "good" for cutting exercises, mind you I don't like the balance on some I've tried, but I digress. To use $10k Nihonto for the same thing would be "bad"

And I agree with this premise. An antique, or valuable modern art sword, should not die a dog's death in the hands of someone who does not know how to cut. This is the reason for the pursuit, to build a blade that would survive the efforts of a learner, keeping the price acceptable, and the respect of the tradition-holders, until the learner could step up to using a treasure and not decrease the value of either the blade or the lessons.

Originally Posted by onimaru55

I didn't use the word "bad". I said "authentic".

Chinese reproduction Katana can be "good" for cutting exercises, mind you I don't like the balance on some I've tried, but I digress. To use $10k Nihonto for the same thing would be "bad"

And I never said you used the term bad specifically, but you did equate quality, authenticity and country of origin with the generalization that they are somehow related. So then, how is a product made in the U.S. any more "authentic" than a product made in China or anywhere else for that matter? Do a Google search, "authentic" tamahagane swords seem to come mostly out of the US.

Sorry bud, but someone has to play devil's advocate here. I do agree that a $10 knockoff is useless for pretty much anything, but the fact is that this thread has drifted far from the OP's question. He stated that he wasn't going to "use the sword for anything", so whatever he ends up buying will be little more than a showpiece for the livingroom anyway. Unless he's rich or planning on seriously getting into Iaido or Iaijutsu there is little point in him contemplating buying a real Japanese tamahagane masterpiece for upward of $6000 anyway....

Originally Posted by Ryan82

And I never said you used the term bad specifically, but you did equate quality, authenticity and country of origin with the generalization that they are somehow related. So then, how is a product made in the U.S. any more "authentic" than a product made in China or anywhere else for that matter? Do a Google search, "authentic" tamahagane swords seem to come mostly out of the US.

Sorry bud, but someone has to play devil's advocate here. I do agree that a $10 knockoff is useless for pretty much anything, but the fact is that this thread has drifted far from the OP's question. He stated that he wasn't going to "use the sword for anything", so whatever he ends up buying will be little more than a showpiece for the livingroom anyway. Unless he's rich or planning on seriously getting into Iaido or Iaijutsu there is little point in him contemplating buying a real Japanese tamahagane masterpiece for upward of $6000 anyway....

True I won't use it for much but the occasional cut or two won't be bad.


As for the generalizations that the Chinese stuff is crap, don't we do that with razors usually?

If you haven't already, check out kultofathena.com. they have a nice selection of both battle ready and stage combat knives and swords. I'm in no way affiliated with the site. I just like to look at shiny things.