Thread: Knife as a tool

In my opinion the primary characteristics of a knife (especially a folder) is that it is a tool to be used and that it should be easy to sharpen and to hold an edge. To require extra care to prevent rusting should have no bearing on the steel used. The best steel with these characteristics is carbon steel. In my opinion stainless steel has no use for a folding knife. To me the plethora of stainless steel knives is a disgrace. All or most of the vintage folders and other knives were made with carbon steel and they were not expensive. Now, if one wants to acquire a carbon steel knife, he must pay a ridiculously high price. Personally, I think this situation is unacceptable. Who among you agree?

I think that cheap low grade stainless knives are an abomination and that carbon steel is usually easier to sharpen and may hold a sharper edge, but I would not rule out any possibility of acquiring high quality stainless knives. I used to have trouble getting stainless fillet knives sharp using slow cutting Arkansas stones and always looked only for carbon blades. One day at Woodcraft, I discovered DMT diamond sharpening plates and pasted leather strops. Since that time, I have been able to get quality stainless knives (not junk) hair shaving sharp on a medium grit diamond plate followed by stropping on leather with CrOx compound. The stainless knife edges last well in home use with only a touch up on the pasted paddle strop needed between uses. I also have had good luck maintaining stainless knives using Japanese water stones after the knife bevels have been set up on the diamond plate followed by stropping. I really appreciate my Sabatier carbons and continue to use both carbon and stainless knives, but I need to keep my carbon blades away from other household members who are not very committed to the maintenance required by carbon steel. An EDC carbon folder or belt knife is a fine tool, but there may be some outdoor uses such as marine cruising environments where a good stainless blade might be a better choice.

HTH

I don't.

I prefer carbon steel knives, like you. But I don't think stainless is a disgrace. Just because you really like knives does not mean other people are required to do the same. For many people, stainless is a good choice. I'm currently making a set of kitchen knives for my wife. Stainless steel and micarta handles. The simple reason is that my wife had 1 single condition: they have to be dishwasher safe. That rules out carbon steel.

You also over romanticize the days of yesteryear. They didn't use stainless because they didn't -have- stainless. If they had had it, they would have used it. For example, I read that on ocean ships, tools were kept immersed in a vat of oil, because that was the only way to keep them from rusting away. You think they wouldn't have used stainless if they had had it? In those days, they would have used stainless for everything where it would have worked.

And it's not really true that you have to pay ridiculous prices for carbon steel knives. True, you can't really buy a stainless steel spyderco, but you can buy a carbon steel opinel for 8$
Amazon.com: Opinel No 6 Carbon Steel Folding knife: Sports & Outdoors

Well, my Friodur is among the best shavers I have, and I have tried a few. So I guess I'd have to say that from my point of view, taking into account your own criteria of what makes a steel "good", that I heartily disagree with you.

James.

I think if you ever shave with a vintage Hess 44 straight razor or vintage C-Mon stainless blade, you would have an entirely different perspective. There are also a few currently made models using stainless that are quite good shavers. ATS-34 and CPM-154 both make very nice razors too.

Have fun,

Lynn

Hmm...my folder is made from Talonite and I love it.

I only recently switched to a stainless EDC. Not because I specified stainless, but the maker ihad this on hand. I'm not disappointed at all in the blade.
I have had a number of knives in my life, all tools, ranging from vintage to custom and while there is a warm spot in my heart for a proper carbon steel blade, I have no desire to eliminate stainless from my options.
On the not of marine blades; my uncle has run a commercial long-liner fisher/processor in the Bering Sea for longer than I I have been alive and he has always preferred carbon steel for his processing knives and to this day they are aboard.

There is a good reason that woodworking planes and woodcarving chisels and gouges are made of tool (carbon) steel. A sculpture would not put up with a stainless gouge.

Originally Posted by htmitten

There is a good reason that woodworking planes and woodcarving chisels and gouges are made of tool (carbon) steel. A sculpture would not put up with a stainless gouge.

Did my graduate work in sculpture and I wouldn't mind a set of chisels made out of CPM 154 or S30V. Properly sharpened they would work fine. To be perfectly honest there is a good reason sculptors do not have modern stainless chisels. The big one is that carbon steels are MUCH easier to forge and work on top of being a less expensive material to start with. Manufacturing cost and tradition have more to do with chisels being made of carbon steel than carbon steel being the only good steel.

My .02 worth.

I've got a few stainless folders that are some kick ass knives. I've got a Buck 110 made in '72 that I bought to replace one that had been stolen from me. I brought it back from 'Nam and still use it. I have a "SWISS TOOL" by Victorinox that has been through pure Hell. The steel isn't as hard as the Buck's but it is tough. I've also got a old Challenge Cutlery Corp knife with stainless blades that I figure helped hasten the demise of that company. It is a dog of knife. It is also the ONLY one of its style that I've ever seen without a broken back spring. It doesn't get used and rarely gets opened these days. It is a "safe queen". Stainless steel has come a long way since it was introduced. 80 years of technological advancement along with a world war helped bring it to where it is nowadays.

I used to make knives from L6. That is a wonderful old steel. It has a high nickel content and is a bit slower to rust than most. It gets real soft in the annealed state and will get hard enough to cut glass if you have a mind to make it. At that hardness it is nearly as brittle as glass though. I did all forging and my heat treat in a coal fire. I used a 2" by 72" belt grinder to grind my blades and made some tough "using" knives before I figured out I was working for about a dollar an hour.

Nowadays, I carry two carbon steel knives. In my pocket resides an old tear drop Challenge Cutlery Corp jack knife. That old knife has more snap than any new knife I've handled. Holds and edge and takes one too. On my hip, I have one of the "ridiculously expensive" newly made carbon steel knives by Great Eastern Cutlery. It has 1095 steel blades and will get wicked sharp and stay that way. IT's a 4 1/2 inch closed "trapper" pattern knife and it too has some EVIL snap. It does have half stops on the blades which is nice because if you get a finger in that punk when it closes, it will not be pretty. GEC has since toned down the spring tension I guess due to feared liability issues.

I swap that GEC and that Buck out every few months just to be different. That old Buck served me well in SE Asia and has done yeoman duty since. I've worn out three of the belt holsters but the old knife is still going strong.

The reason most of the new pocket knives are "ridiculously overpriced" is due to US labor and material costs. I buy from these companies because their product is good and they're "home grown". I would also hazard a guess that maybe thirty percent of GEC's production will ever get used as a knife. Most are bought by collectors and end up as safe queens.

On the other hand, most guys that buy a pocket knife aren't interested in a collectible knife. They want a knife they can use and not be out an arm and a leg if they break it or lose it. The Chinese market knives fit that bill very nicely.

I am also of the opinion that CASE is catering to collector market. I am NOT impressed by their knives today and as far as I'm concerned, Case quit making knives to use in 1970. Queen and their offshoots like Canal Street are hit and miss. Some rally rock whilst others really stink. I judge them one knife at a time.

The "stainless" steels mentioned above are great when the heat treat is done right. A 154CM/ATS34 knife is a wonderful thing. It will stain as will 440C. 440C is a bit harder to get to stain but it can be done.

One of these days I'll get me a big ol stainless razor and give it a whirl. I expect it will do everything as advertised and do it well.

Meantime, I'll keep on using the gal I brought to the dance.