.thanks for the links very interesting, whats your view on fine paste on a canvas strop will that eliminate the need for honing or stretch it out honing is what im nervous about i dont want to ruin the blade it such a mine field im thinking of a 12k watertone any advise would be great .i give my new blade a go tonight it was ok but the AGT shave was very pianfull (sore and burning) WTG was preety close though its probaly my technique.i before i shaved i put the blade onm y moist nail and pulled it didnt grip it was smooth but resistive does that sound right may be i need more stropping or honing the girl in shop couldnt tell me anything other than the price and color of the handle she called it i