The Stub-Tailed Shavers

Got this Bengall in an online auction for a good price, I haven't done a thing to it apart from scratching off a bit of rust with my fingernail. I think I'll just buff the scales, clean out the pivot and blade with a bit of Sonax polishing compound and hone her up.

Attachment 76655

It has jimps on the spine and belly of the tang, and the spine itself is uneven, maybe unevenly flatted. I think it's in its original horn scales, hardly a scratch on them. However there is a space in the wedge where it's been filed down or something for the blade to fit in and rest on the wedge. Is this common or just a sign of re-scaling?

It has no markings except for BENGALL, is it safe to say that it's a Cadman & Sons?

For dating, my very inexperienced guess would be 1800-1850. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I like your razor! :D The Bengall razors have always had a great reputation. Just like most of the guys in this club I find it simply awesome that we are looking at a ~200 year old tool that predates the Civil War and we are going to use it! Wow! :D

I have a couple old Sheffields, one of them with a stub tail it seems.
Leather scales on the last one.

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/6838/sheffield11.jpg
By blix72 at 2011-08-26

http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/4121/sheffield12.jpg
By Blix72 at 2011-08-26

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/4440/sheffield21.jpg
By Blix72 at 2011-08-26

I'd love some information of how old they can be.

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/4226/sheffield22.jpg
By blix72 at 2011-08-26

Nice pair of razors. Well they don't have England along with Sheffield so they are pre 1881. They have a slight curve to the scales and that came in in the 1820s IIRC. Two things that stump me are the one being stamped, "Made From Italian Sand" and the other having 'leather scales.' I've never seen either of those things on a razor no matter when it was made.

Thank you Jimmy. Yeah I haven't seen any with the Italian sand stuff before either. And yes, the scales is leather on the Frank Bevitt :)

I also have a Sheffield razor with the leather scales. I was surprised but thats what they are. Look the same as the one above.

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Originally Posted by randydance062449

I like your razor! :D The Bengall razors have always had a great reputation. Just like most of the guys in this club I find it simply awesome that we are looking at a ~200 year old tool that predates the Civil War and we are going to use it! Wow! :D

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I know, I'm really looking forward to honing it up and shaving. It was one of those unexpected, most satisfactory (emotionally as well as financially). The problem is the spine is slighty slanted, uneven. Have to figure out how to hone that without getting a terribly uneven bevel, but I'll save that discussion for the honing forum.

@Blix: They look very nice, pretty clean, and, apparently Italian Sand-ey. Always wondered what that looked like...

Good luck on finding more awesome old stubbies, guys! And don't forget to share the love in here.

http://i54.tinypic.com/2s0feop.jpg
My French 'Hiver' (with replacement horn scales)

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Originally Posted by MichaelS

My French 'Hiver' (with replacement horn scales)

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Now that is a SEXY blade!

It certainly has curves :)

Niiiiiice!

Hey guys..I have been loosely following this thread on and off for a while now. You guys got some very nice steel showing off here. Props to ya .

That Hiver is beautiful. How does it shave, and how does it compare to a more modern one?
Cheers,
Rob

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Originally Posted by Frankenstein

That Hiver is beautiful. How does it shave, and how does it compare to a more modern one?
Cheers,
Rob

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Great shaver, the steel is a bit softer than modern steel - more comfortable but more touching up too! It's amazing to think it's original owner probably wore a wig and carried a sword! :)

Here is a 4 Dollar oldy that has a history that I imagine. Probably bought new in the very early 1800s. It had a lot of use and the scales were replaced. The job was rushed but... It would appear that the replacement was by the owner who may have been a journeyman cabinet maker. The scales, though roughly finished, appear to be of a good quality rosewood. The pinning left something to be desired so when re-assembling it I used the original washers and bodged the new pivot pin to match the older work, now to add a bit of oily grease onto the pivot washers and voila!.
The sad part is..like so many of the old razors, It will not accept a honing to shave ready. so I am oiling her and she will go into a display box with some other old
http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z...Vasfrontsm.jpg
http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z...asfrontPsm.jpg
http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z...VasbackPsm.jpg

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Originally Posted by Geezer

like so many of the old razors, It will not accept a honing to shave ready.

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May I ask what do you mean by this? I have decided to reduce my collection to pre-Madrid razors only, you are scaring me... :) :thinking:

Do not fear! Old razors may be, individually, good or bad. The temper may be good or bad. We all make poor choices while learning about razors. It is a part of the game of collecting and using old stuff! No-one gets bye free of error! Is a razor very old and would it look nice in a collection? Will it shave well? Maybe yes or no.
Remember, that the processes used were developed by craftsmen and as human beings, they had good and bad days at work. I have some early 1800's razors that are fine.

If an old razor that was surface hardened and tempered by the case hardening process has been honed a great deal, it may be that the surface hardening has been honed through and leaves the not so tempered core metal at the surface.

A suggestion: If the tip of the shaving edge is worn more than the rest of the cutting edge, there may be some problem with that razor holding a shaving edge. In the bottom picture, look at the hone line on the razor above. The bevel gets much wider toward the tip and the tip of the razor curves upward a lot. That tip curve does not mean that a razor is bad by itself, but may be an indication. Many early Razors had an up-curved cutting edge.
Early razors are a class by themselves till late in the 1820s and their shape and bevel may be somewhat different than newer styles And, I cannot say how they differ, you must study for yourself.
See Wikipedia:Case_hardening

Here's my additions

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...620-picsay.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...616-picsay.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...607-picsay.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...606-picsay.jpg
I don't have any information for this razor, It looks to me to say "E-M&C" and then some other symbol, not sure what. Can anyone help? Anybody out there recognize the stamp?



Now the second one is also a mystery,

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...617-picsay.jpg
Stamped "Warranted"

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...603-picsay.jpg
The razor still has a faint etch on the blade, it appears to be the same or similar etch as the one in the picture that clavichord posted earlier on in this thread:

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Originally Posted by clavichord

Attachment 25460

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Is it possible that this is one of the same maker? or is this a common etch found on different makers of around that time? Anyone know?

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the same or similar etch

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I don't think, that the same.

http://manah.strazors.com/clark_hall.jpg

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Originally Posted by manah

I don't think, that the same.

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I had a closer inspection today under various lights today, this's what I could see, it was too faint to get a photo of it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...621-picsay.jpg

Hi id like to join with my first stub tail just got her all i can see is warrented on the tang.I am thinking that it has been reground because its not a wedge, or a full one anyway and the great condition its in for its age,any ideas was it a common practice? very happy with it haven shaved with her yet havent had time to hone her as for age im thinking around 1815/1830 ish.
http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/...0/IMG_9399.jpg
http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/...0/IMG_9400.jpg

It looks like it might qualify, close the blade and lets see that tail again.

The scales curve which began in somewhere around 1810 to 20 according to Robert Doyle. There is a distinct tang so it is not that early. Again according to Doyle, the frameback came around somewhere in the 1830s IIRC. So it ain't a stub tail. IMHO a true stub tail is one of the earlier ones with the straight scales etcetera.

If it's not a stubtail why are we junking up this site with pictures of a razor that belongs in some other category?

Regards - Walt

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Originally Posted by Walt

If it's not a stubtail why are we junking up this site with pictures of a razor that belongs in some other category?

Regards - Walt

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Its now been sorted :D

I take it your not talking about my razor in these posts and that it just looks that way because someone added somthing that has now been removed ?

Add mine to the list. an old Wade & Butcher. Soon to be somebody elses, but at least till the end of the day, shes still mine!
Attachment 81593Attachment 81594Attachment 81595

And yes, I get good shaves from her!

I just got my first stubtail in a box of restore projects...I know nothing about it except it's MASSIVE (8/8). broken (sadly) ivory scales. Says "Superior-Tempre" on the shank and faintly says "Magnum Bonum" on the very thick spine...

Nice :) That is one fat all around razor. Defenatly late bob tail, pronounced shoulder and longer tail, but still looks like a Bob to me.

Lucky grab :)

Here is my newest she is a wedge and has been rescaled some time in the past i think the stamp on the tang reads Marsdan or marsden warranted early i think maybe 1790 to 1815 or so any info would be great thanks .
http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/...0/IMG_9320.jpg
http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/...0/IMG_9317.jpg

I'm inclined to agree with the timeline but I have no other info. Sorry. Very nice looker and seems to be serviceable :)

These are my stubbies! the first one is a George Johnson.. i say its from 1815 (it has a really cool etching from one of the original period owners that says 1834) and the other is a J. Elliot i say from the 1830s.. what yall think?
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...at103029AM.png
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...13/image40.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...at103435AM.png
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...at103451AM.png

Very nice examples! The first pic etching looks like the Wostenholm Pipe!

That Elliot is drop dead sexy!

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Originally Posted by MickRussell

That Elliot is drop dead sexy!

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thanks! ^.^

PS what era do yall think the Elliot is from? I think 1830s to 1850s.. yall think thats accurate?

I'd tend to lean on the earlier end of that scale due to how the thumb notch is made but not much earlier thanks to the length of the tail. It's all rather vague though, and I'm not exactly a seasoned expert in these matters.

two of those look like the ones i was bidding for on ebay......

nice score!

I know, it looks familiar :)
Used to be Magpie's but now it's mine! The tankard is from the 1830's, the charger from 1764 and the Wade & Butcher from sometime in the early 1800's. As Magpie said, it does shave great!

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Originally Posted by Saxon

I know, it looks familiar :)
Used to be Magpie's but now it's mine! The tankard is from the 1830's, the charger from 1764 and the Wade & Butcher from sometime in the early 1800's. As Magpie said, it does shave great!

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beautiful! love these blades!