Thread: The Stub-Tailed Shavers

Originally Posted by Steve56

They’re not as comfortable as a modern monkey tail, but nothing that you can’t get used to, which of course many people did.

Of course they did when they had no choice but we have a choice today thanks to the evolution in razor design over the past 300 years. The longer tails are really an improvement in design. I am not so sure about the evolution in blade shapes and sizes in that regard though. The older ones seem to shave just as well as the more modern ones.

Bob

I agree with the above for the steel and I have mostly used the stub tails so I find it feels very normal and easy for me. I think it just has to with what you are used to using. The ones with the small spike type tail I do notice a bit more, but still not a problem.

Originally Posted by JOB15

I think that the further back you go the better the steel generally speaking and the really early stubbies have excellent grinds.. I have no problem with any grind or shape.

Do you think the steel was better in a metallurgical sense or just maybe it was softer so takes a different type of edge. I imagine steel is actually one of the areas which has advanced the most, especially back then. Just moving from blister steel to crucible was a huge improvement in quality and consistency. I could imagine alloying was very low so very small carbide volumes but we have good low carbide volume steels now.

Originally Posted by thp001

Do you think the steel was better in a metallurgical sense or just maybe it was softer so takes a different type of edge. I imagine steel is actually one of the areas which has advanced the most, especially back then. Just moving from blister steel to crucible was a huge improvement in quality and consistency. I could imagine alloying was very low so very small carbide volumes but we have good low carbide volume steels now.

From what i understand it is to do with the worlds steel stocks and that steel and its ingredients are gone and we move on..It is malleable in my eyes so it seems soft but harder steel is brittle and breaks away easier.

Originally Posted by JOB15

From what i understand it is to do with the worlds steel stocks and that steel and its ingredients are gone and we move on..It is malleable in my eyes so it seems soft but harder steel is brittle and breaks away easier.

I imagine it's more that most steel is recycled so maybe there are more impurities, or more detrimental impurities today than there were then. I imagine back in the days of blister and shear steel the only thing you were really contending with was the silica in the iron. If you ever find a really old shear steel knife that's in bad shape you often see the layers of steel de-laminating which is because of the silica content.

Originally Posted by thp001

I imagine it's more that most steel is recycled so maybe there are more impurities, or more detrimental impurities today than there were then. I imagine back in the days of blister and shear steel the only thing you were really contending with was the silica in the iron. If you ever find a really old shear steel knife that's in bad shape you often see the layers of steel de-laminating which is because of the silica content.

I don't know the reason for sure, but the impurities and steel properties from back then just seem to play better with my natural stones. Not to mention the heavier grinds and design properties of the blade. Harder to hone in some ways because it isn't a straight line though.
I always felt like the de-laminating was due to cold shut, which may be caused by not cleaning the steel well before folding it so the weld didn't seal properly while the steel was liquid state. Was the stuff not cleaned the Silica?

Originally Posted by rideon66

I don't know the reason for sure, but the impurities and steel properties from back then just seem to play better with my natural stones. Not to mention the heavier grinds and design properties of the blade. Harder to hone in some ways because it isn't a straight line though.
I always felt like the de-laminating was due to cold shut, which may be caused by not cleaning the steel well before folding it so the weld didn't seal properly while the steel was liquid state. Was the stuff not cleaned the Silica?

I'm sure there are forging flaws out there but you actually see this kind of delamination in wrought iron (the real stuff) kind of looks like wood fibers splitting away. Near where I lived there was an industrial museum with bars of hot rolled wrought iron down by the mill displaying this phenomena. This metal was not forged in anyway. Only happens when the metal is really beat up/rusty/old and stressed.

I agree with you on the stone observation, I've always felt modern steels, especially stainless just don't respond well on natural stones. That being said I have an old Joseph Rogers carving knife that was made right back when stainless was taking off and it feels much more like my carbon knives than my modern stainless when sharpening.