Thread: Steel Composition

All,

Can anyone give me specifics on the composition of the steel used in days of old for razor making? I would also like any information on steel used now, IF it has changed significantly.

By specifics, I mean carbon composition, other alloying percentages (manganese, chromium, etc.). Also, typical quenching (or not quenching) and heat treating practices (tempered, annealed, etc.).

Any info will help. Working on some things for my materials engineering senior design.

Thanks in advanced.

I can't give specifics, I'm sure other will fill u in on that shortly, however I can say with 100% certainty that vintage makers, especially Sheffield cutlers all had different proprietary formulations, some of which may have also included experimental material which may or may not have improved the quality of the steel.
Almost no 2 steel producing companies would be. Crafting the same exact product.

Yeah on proprietaries, one can buy a dozen different brand-name variations (composition and/or heat treatment) of what falls under the general specification "4130" and that's just for bicycles. I know of at least 3 or 4 different alloys being used to make black powder gun barrels (not counting 4140). I'll imagine it's much like that in the knife/razor industry (current and historic).

There's a "How it's Made" episode made at Dovo. See the most of the process there.

As i unnerstand it you work your metal (steel in this case) as much as you can as soft as you can, if it work hardens too much, then an annealing stage is used. After most of the processing, hardening is performed, and then tempering back to the needs of the application. And in some cases heat or extreme cold are used for stress-relieving the work. Mix and match to make it work.

That's an interesting one. Don't know what your design project is specifically but by chance do you have access to some kind of spectrometer there at school? It'd be cool to test a bunch of different vintage razors to see exactly what they contain.

It's true that in last 2 centuries there were many razor manufactoring brands, but steel production was concentrated in few large companies, mainly in UK, Sweden and Germany.
Then you can understand that variations were in carbon content (from 0.5 to 1.2 %) and in very small quantities of alligants (less than 0.3%), because steel foundries didn't have such large product catalogues as you can find today.
All manufacturers were buying similar steel bars, what is differentiating them is mainly the heath treatment not the steel composition.
And you can find common strategies in the same manufactoring area.
For example most France made razors are in silversteel with heath treatment that makes the steel very hard, but with big grain and difficult to hone.
Most razors in Sheffield area are mild steel (56-58 hrc) with very fine grain and consequently very easy to hone, though they need touch ups more often.
Solingen was in the middle, moreover in that area there were so many manufacturers that there you can find a larger spread of heat treatment techniques.

The vast majority of Sheffield producers didn't make their own steel.

Wade & Butcher did -- in fact, steel refining was their larger business, Greaves & Sons did, Charles Pickslay did as well as the Sanderson brothers (whose razors are very hard to find, but do exist).

Most of the ore used for old Sheffield razors came from Sweden, but over time many other sources were used as well -- India, Russia, America and probably others I'm forgetting.

Others will have better information about steel composition than I will -- it's not really my area.

You could find some interesting links here, though not everything in english:
Ilrasoio.com • Leggi argomento - Database e argomenti relativi acciai

Crikey - you aren't asking much, are you?! Do we get marks for doing your project for you? Maybe you'll just take us all out for drinks?

Seriously, everything you asked for can be found in libraries, on the web, and even in the threads on this very forum as your question has been asked before and answered at some length. All you have to do is invest your own time and put in the legwork to find out - that's what these sort of projects are about after all, isn't it?

If I was you I would get the basics from books, learned articles, published papers and pamphlets before collating data from the web. Historical articles on the web would be next, before going on to forums where quite frankly much of the info is misleading - anyone who can type can post what they think is right, for example. Some don't even understand the processes involved in getting steel from iron ore...

Some things you might want to research, by no means exhaustive though and not in a time-line, are:

Robert Faraday and James Stodart's alloying experiments

Pickslay and Padley's use of real silver in steel and trademarking the name Peruvian Steel

David Mushet, scottish metallurgist and his use of black-band ironstone and career at Clyde Iron Works, Calder Iron Works, Alfreton Ironworks, Whitecliff Iron Works, Darkhill Ironworks

Robert Forester Mushet, son of David, Forest Steelworks, Titanic Steelworks, spathose iron ore, spiegel glanz, ferro-manganese, his help in making Bessemers convertor work, his steel formulations particularly RMS steel, Samuel Osborne buying the rights to RMS - the first tool and air hardening steel - and using it for such diverse articles as razors and railway lines

Crucible Steel, its origins in India where it was known as Wootz and its relationship to Damascus Steel

Benjamin Huntsman's rediscovery of crucible steel and its marketing as Acier Fondu

Types of steel including blister steel, shear steel, double shear steel, acier fondu/crucible steel/cast steel

Finery furnaces, puddling furnaces, blast furnaces, convertors, electric furnaces

Henry Bessemer's convertor making cheap steel a reality and the Gilchrist-Thomas improvements to the process and the Siemans-Martin process, Siemens open hearth process

The need for using pure ore in the Bessemer process in order that phosphorus rich brittle steel does not result (spiegel, ferromanganese)

Swedens rich natural resources and early metal industry using limonite or bog iron ore,

The purity of Swedish, Michigan and Welsh iron ore, the finest iron ore from sweden: Oregrund, Dannemora ore, Uppsala/Uppland, Eskilstuna and the Rademacher area location of C V Heljestrand, Erik Anton Berg, J A Hellberg

How steel making changed significantly in the 1950s


The above only touches a few parts of your question. Happy googling.

Regards,
Neil

Originally Posted by RoyalCake

That's an interesting one. Don't know what your design project is specifically but by chance do you have access to some kind of spectrometer there at school? It'd be cool to test a bunch of different vintage razors to see exactly what they contain.

Unfortunately, the EDS is closed til the New Year due to building renovations. And the etching lab I have access to is closed due to crappy fume hood, although I mentioned I am good at holding my breath for a long time. They didn't buy it. Which means can't get micrograph images either. I might try my luck at the beginning of next semester.

In this PDF they show how steel was produced in Sweden before the industrialization, text in Swedish, sorry but feel free to ask if there is anything you want to know.

http://sinunda.se/sidor/Tranemojarn/.../prosessen.pdf