Thread: Damascus blade

Wow - this is a really interesting thread - a lot of fascinating information here - probably none that I will ever need or use, but interesting nontheless.

-so, when I think of Damascus, I guess it's really the pattern welded steel - which is layers of two different steel types edge welded together

Originally Posted by Mike Blue

Higher grade? Maybe in the eye of the beholder. When you take a good high carbon steel and weld it in layers with a low carbon steel, carbon averaging takes place over the first four heats/welds.

So, over the years, as you hone your razor, do the qualities of the cutting edge change as you abrade through the different layers.

-not that I need to know....just curious.

-whatever

-Lou

This issue of exactly what does TI use in their "damascus" razors has come up many times over the years and I was going to suggest that maybe someone should ask them if they would tell you. I'd be willing to bet they won't give a definitive answer. Probably a trade secret. All I do know from a practical standpoint as a user is its tough stuff whatever it may be.

Originally Posted by scarface

... -so, when I think of Damascus, I guess it's really the pattern welded steel - which is layers of two different steel types edge welded together

So, over the years, as you hone your razor, do the qualities of the cutting edge change as you abrade through the different layers.

Most folks who are selling "damascus" steels these days are selling pattern welded material, layers of differing steels. Until Alfred Pendray got the bug for the experimentation to reproduce wootz (the original damascus steel of historical note) in the eighties, there wasn't any name competition.

Buried in a couple posts previously is the concept of carbon averaging or carbon migration. Simply, during the welding process to make a billet of PW steel, carbon will "even out" throughout the billet. Each layer will then have the same general cutting ability/abrasion resistance/toughness/harness of the whole. There will only be appearance differences between the layers, not performance differences.

The one exception would be when pure nickle is used in the layering. For the most part, of the makers I know, whose methods I know, the layer count on those steel mixtures is high enough, the starting thickness of the nickel (in thousandths) is small enough in the beginning stages (and decreases with forging), the carbon steels on either side of the nickel shim are supportive enough, that I suspect it would be difficult to feel a difference in shaving regardless. At least for this exception.

Likely of more significance, over time, would be the depth or section thickness of the material heat treated. Theoretically, you could wear away, over a lifetime's use now, enough hardened steel to get down into a thicker section that had not hardened to the same degree as the edge and a noticeable difference in shaving quality would be apparent. Also contributing would be the changed angle of the bevel at the edge due to that wear.

There are lots more variables contributing to this thought problem aren't there?