Thread: William Greaves and Sons Chinese Razor

Originally Posted by sharptonn

No no! The razors are not fake. Good Sheffield blades. The 'Chinese' script is fake upon some of them. It was just a marketing ploy!

No, that's what I meant. What I meant was, if you are Sheffield knife maker selling razors in England, why would you want the English to think the razor was made in China? If you a Chinese maker was trying to sell razors in Germany, for example, I can understand why the Chinese make would mark the razor, Hand durch die überfurher der sachsen geschmiedet"

Originally Posted by jgjgjg

Why would anyone FAKE a chinese razor, or any other edge too? A Japanese, swedish, or german fake I can understand. But the middle kingdom hasn't exactly been known for the quality of their steel.

What Tom said.

But more seriously, people still do this! There are innumerable consumer goods and tattoos that incorporate other languages as an exotic design element, and Hanzi bears the brunt of it.

In the early 1840's when these razors were made, there was a huge appetite for anything made in China. Enough of one that it just needed to somehow vaguely suggest China, like the poor copies and random hashes on these razors.

It's kind of like asking why headlights, orange-tinted glasses, dust cloths, furniture polish, or just about anything else you can find in stores is 'HD'. In the 1840's, consumers were being sold 'Chinese' the way we are now being sold 'High Definition'.

Originally Posted by Voidmonster

What Tom said.

But more seriously, people still do this! There are innumerable consumer goods and tattoos that incorporate other languages as an exotic design element, and Hanzi bears the brunt of it.

Twas in the early 1990s and I was working for a guy had two tattoo shops. So I was alone in one of the two and he calls from the other shop. "Jimmy, you know that Edward Lee design sheet with the three skulls and the big Chinese character?" Yeah Lou, I'm looking right at it as we speak.

"What does it mean ?" I haven't got a clue Lou, sez I ............ he answers,"Intellectual and intelligent, thank you!"

Then he hangs up. So he wanted the customer to think it meant what he figured would sell the tattoo. After that anytime anyone oriental walked in I'd ask if they could translate the kanji. Finally found out it meant "evil."

They are teaching Chinese in the schools here and I had a parent teacher meeting yesterday I have a picture of the scale I posted above on my phone and when I found out they were teaching Chinese I ask if they could translate it the only thing they could tell me was they thought one of the characters said " cute" but they didn't know for sure

Use to, be into oriental rugs. Yes, the signed ones were worth more money. You got it , most had simple salutations where the signature should be. ie: Best Wishes!

Yesterday SWMBO was out of town and I was able to press the reset button on the kitchen and turn it into a workstation. The hones rotated through the soaking tub and came out one by one to go to work on the Greaves CR. I enjoy honing and this was the most enjoyable of all razors in my micro collection. As noted in another thread a friend at work gave me as a thank-you a jar of MDC so this was the king of all shave days. The shave did not disappoint in any way. I don't know how I could go back to a hollow ground razor. (Well this is not a true wedge). The only problem was that I could not really get the pivot pin tight. I'm kind of go to a bigger hammer type of person but I held back and after multiple tap tap tap and flip tap tap tap....well. For now I'll live with a flaccid scale. The razor is intact, a thing of beauty and, if I may, inscrutability. I hope everyone finds the razor they are looking for.

Originally Posted by Voidmonster

What Tom said.

But more seriously, people still do this! There are innumerable consumer goods and tattoos that incorporate other languages as an exotic design element, and Hanzi bears the brunt of it.

In the early 1840's when these razors were made, there was a huge appetite for anything made in China. Enough of one that it just needed to somehow vaguely suggest China, like the poor copies and random hashes on these razors.

It's kind of like asking why headlights, orange-tinted glasses, dust cloths, furniture polish, or just about anything else you can find in stores is 'HD'. In the 1840's, consumers were being sold 'Chinese' the way we are now being sold 'High Definition'.

Don't forget"Green". "Organic" or "Earth Friendly" More marketing hype than anything else nowadays.

I got a answer to my question about the scales that came off of one of my Chinese Razors. I had my Son take the scale to school and ask his Teacher to translate it. When he came home this after noon he handed me a index card with the translation. This is how she translated it "Eyes Clear as a mirror like elegant orchid. the tang was translated in post #26 above I an going to send a picture with my Kid and see what she says its says.

Originally Posted by wrl

As was surmised, the first three razors from the top are pure gibberish. The bottom two, although inaccurately scripted by a non-chinese writer, do have a measure of legitimacy. Let's examine:

Attachment 155120
From left to right, we see (in romanized Mandarain): dú hǎo diào

However, these characters are laid down on their left side; they would more appropriately be displayed as such (left to right becomes top to bottom):

Attachment 155113

It can be considered a stretch to loosely narrow it down to these characters as some of the strokes and even whole radicals are entirely out of place. However, the characters for which they were aiming is fairly obvious. And then the translation:

獨(一無二的) - dú'yīwú'èrde (pr. DOO-EEE-WOO-'UHR-DUH): unique, unparalleled, distinctive
好 - hǎo (pr. 'HOW): good
調 - diào or tiáo (pr. DEE-'YOW or TEE-'YOW): (a number of possibilities here)--tone / intonation / tune / key (as in music); to suit well or fit in perfectly; melody; and a few less likely possibilities.

One could combine them into familiar razor jargon along the lines of "Uniquely/Distinctly/Exceptionally Toned/Tuned/Suited/Suitable" (and several other translations).

Here's one Max sold (Joseph Elliot):

Attachment 155117

Attachment 155118

Attachment 155119

I hope this offers a degree of clarity.

Cheers,
Will


src: I'm not Chinese. I double-majored in Asian Studies and Chinese Language & Literature. I also worked for several years as a Chinese linguist. I continue to use my Chinese experience and education in a (secondary) professional capacity.

That's the one I have, the exact one. I got it off the bay quite awhile back. You can see it in the SOTD here:

http://straightrazorpalace.com/shave...ml#post1555159

And here is when Max first restored it & sold it:

Vintage Straight Razors : Joseph Elliot : 'Chinese Razor' : 6/8 : Near Wedge : Gray Translucent Horn

I'll find my W&B plus the other one & post those soon. My computer browser just crashed again so I need to call Apple Support also.

Here are the other two, the W&B & the other one which looks like a Sheffield. I don't know how I got the W&B so cheap except for it went in the middle of the night & the Sheffield looking one, no one else bid on. In the second pic, the W&B is on top & the other one is on the bottom. I was wrong, they don't have the same writing on them.