Thread: Sheffields

The best chance I see is trying to approach a company such as Wade and Butchers to see if they would be interested in licesning their branding for straight razors. That way, Wade and Butchers would have SRs back in their line of products, but without needing to invest anything themselves, only taking a percentage by riding on your work. And vice versa you would ride on their coattails in terms of brand name and marketing. It would be a return to cottage style industry.

That could work.

A Sheffield company like Jagger or Taylor's Eye Witness (who still exist is some form or another) could probably do it as a profit neutral 'halo' thing as they have other mass produced products to keep the money rolling in (like kitchen knives and home wares in the case of Taylor's). I'm assuming all the old equipment (and expertise) is long gone from Sheffield, but a modern CnC shop could easily handle the hard work like cutting out and grinding, leaving the finishing work for generally skilled metal polishers, heat treaters etc. Honing would be tricky but if they were specifically targeting the enthusiast they could leave that for the resellers/ end users. Anyway... would be nice but I won't hold my breath!

Bruno said:

"I'm not saying that such machines can't be built for razors. But as I said, it would be a huge investment up front.
And make no mistake, prices are 'high' because there is no supply. If the prices would be subject to agressive competition, they would fall and the market is so small that any profit would quickly fade away to break even at best.

If Dovo and TI were not in a sellers market, their razor business would be killed overnight."

This pretty much sums it up, IMO.

Originally Posted by Phrank

Bruno said:

"I'm not saying that such machines can't be built for razors. But as I said, it would be a huge investment up front.
And make no mistake, prices are 'high' because there is no supply. If the prices would be subject to agressive competition, they would fall and the market is so small that any profit would quickly fade away to break even at best.

If Dovo and TI were not in a sellers market, their razor business would be killed overnight."

This pretty much sums it up, IMO.

you are probably right But It's like a man in the desert looking at an oasis that really isn't there We can wish can't we

Originally Posted by rhensley

you are probably right But It's like a man in the desert looking at an oasis that really isn't there We can wish can't we

Know what you mean, but in a sense, what we're talking has happened, just not with straights.

The market for DE's is actually coming back quite strongly, there are more and more shops dedicated to men's grooming, Merkur and Feather (the only two I can name) and are actually manufacturing new safety razors, many of my friends know I use a straight, and that simply will never be for them, but for B-Day's and other gifts, I've given DE starter kits and all have embraced it fully - initially from a economic point of view, then to the great shave, then to the aspect of the quality of the experience if so superior, with the world of using a brush, the fine soaps, and the alum block seems to be a big hit.

I have one buddy, who has now acquired several DE's, he commented the other night that his wife really gets it and like it, better shave, great saving, and fundamentally better products in terms of soaps etc...so we have in fact seen a resurgence in this hobby, it's still very niche, but it is doing well, and is competing, but at best is still a gnat on the bottom of the giant manufacturers. You would think, for cost factors alone, let alone quality of shave, men would be flocking to DE's!?! That alone tells you how precarious this market it, let alone for straights.

And sheesh, if some crazy woman can sue a company like MacDonald's because, horns and thunder, the coffee was actually hot - and WIN!!! Can you imagine the potential liability for straight razors?

Then there was the person who sued a large RV company because they thought, "cruise control" meant auto-drive? Set the cruise control at 55 MPH, left the drivers seat to go back and make breakfast or something - and WON!!!

Just makes you shake your head...Nietzsche may have got it wrong, it isn't God that's dead, it's Darwin....

Go over to Newark, NJ, and countless other cities around the USA and see the shells of the rows of factories with their windows broken or boarded up. Converted to condos or torn down. When the world began to be 'global' and the entrepreneurs went 'offshore' the game changed. In the past couple of decades with NAFTA and then China/India coming along manufacturing in the USA became the exception where it used to be the rule. Having to compete with the low wage countries with little or no regulation as far as worker safety and environmental regs makes a lot of things a non starter in the West.

As far as wedges, the Germans perfected hollow grinding in the mid to late 1800s and the wedges largely died out. We come along, razorphiles, and through our nostalgia, and enthusiasm, gravitate toward the old Sheffield wedges and stub tails. Dovo and TI don't make them because there is very little customer base for them. The custom guys make them because they do sell to the cognoscenti and because they can't as easily make full hollows, if they can make them at all. Good for us that so many were made 'back in the day' and most people didn't throw them away.

Originally Posted by rhensley

...dovo and boker are still going...

Sort of. With retails around $250 they even don't bother to set bevels on some of their new stock, let alone make a new razor shave-ready. Damn hard to buy a decent new buggy whip, too.

This makes me glad there is the Gold Dollar and their ilk. If nothing else they siphon off the faintly curious who will then leave it in a drawer and forget the whole thing or move on to some magnificent shaving done in mounds of MDC with the scent of Clubman wafting in the air....In the short time I have been interested in vintage razors the prices have been rising and I don't expect them to reverse. The old timers tell the stories of what used to be...maybe 6 years ago and rip your heart out with the prices of classic razors. There will be a void which will not be filled because very few people can afford a custom razor. If I wasn't at work, I think I'd go grab a beer right now. I'm with Hirlau, no resurrections!

To be quite honest razors were always a small part of any of the large companies product line. Factories such as Wostenholme's, Rodgers, etc produced much greater quantities of table cutlery, bowies, daggers, pen-knives, pocket-knives, knives of every sort for every application from marine to veterinary to aboriculture, silverware, silver plated goods, hollow ware than they did razors. In fact old advertisements, trade catalogues, fliers, etc, say 'cutlery of every description' more often than not. Razors fell out of the line-up long before the other items did.

Other things adding to the downfall of these giants were the early Trade Acts, depression, two world wars with an inter-war depression, the seizure of factories by the Ministry of Defence to make armour plating, ordnance, munitions etc to protect the civilised world from the might of Axis fascists and the turn to cheaper produce for everyday use rather than silver and silver plate and King C Gillette taking over the vast share of the shaving market.

Echoes of the past are still to be found if one searches them out though. For instance, big as they were most of the big companies made use of the 'little meister', a time-served apprentice and journeyman who had his own small concern. These men were hired and let go en-masse as and when market trends dictated. One might say, with some justification, that the last example of little meister in Sheffield was Stan Shaw, but there are others that kept the tradition going - Trevor Ablett springs to mind. But the emphasis had shifted - razors were no longer in demand, so these people specialised in making those things that are still very collectable, mainly custom knives. There are still what may be considered masters in the trade - they might not have served a long apprenticeship or had any formal training, but nevertheless their abilities are beyond question. Custom knife and razor makers fall into this category.

Even today, setting up business as a latter-day little meister, providing you have the necessary skills, seems eminently do-able, but when we push the envelope to consider the mighty factories and workforce and skill-base of times gone by, then that is of course beyond the pale. A bank manager might secure you a loan to set up in business as an individual, but as a large company devoted to making one niche product with very limited appeal - forget it.

Another echo is the use of British Steel in modern razors. Anyone who has handled even a small amount of modern offerings from different makers cannot failed to have noted - and possibly surprised - by the words "Finest Sheffield Steel" proudly stamped (or - a sign of modern convenience and lack of quality, laser etched) on the tang of some of them.

As for using an old, once well respected name to sell a modern offering by, then that goes against the grain as far as I am concerned (did you see what I did then - 'against the grain'? I'm on all week, folks!). I have seen far too many duff modern offerings using revered names from the past, like G&F and Boker, to place any respect in this marketing ploy. Any decent tool - and that's all a razor really is, a tool - stands by itself and makes it's own name. It does not need to piggy-back on the hard work of those long gone. Not all modern offerings by the two companies I mentioned are bad, of course, but a fairly significant amount are. Even Dovo and TI seem to have trouble honing their own product to shave worthiness, and some low-end, low QC, re-branded Dovos seem to have been made by people wearing blindfolds for some sort of a joke.

Another thing that strikes me as an evil is the prevalence of low-class, cheap cr*p razors from the east. I believe then to be a sly, creeping, pervasive evil that has a potential to kill the market. Some. like the GDs, can be made serviceable - if you have the time and inclination - but most are just inferior rubbish. The people who buy them must know little or nothing about straight razors, so it is arguable that they are not in a position to 'fix-em-up' in which case they either seek someone to do it (which often costs more than the razor did) or they sling it in a draw in disgust. What are those disgusted would-be straight razor users going to do about it? Some might remain silent and stoical, some may tell their friends about the garbage they have just bought, and then two people are put off, probably for good.

As for Britain not producing much, that is pretty much the story for most western nations now that factories can be erected in the East where overhead is a fraction of the price, never mind the cost of the labour - some of those people are little more than exploited slaves. Still, the West has a long tradition in exploiting weaker peoples for its own good - some things don't change.

But one can adopt the viewpoint of Johnny Mercer as put across so ably by dear old Bing - Accentuate The Positive. Look closer and Britain still produces a phenomenal amount of home-grown product. There are textile mills, tweeds, whiskey, bespoke Saville Row suit makers, esteemed gentlemens shoemakers, hunting and fishing and shooting suppliers and makers - some of the finest shotguns in the world come from Britain. There are potteries turning out top-notch goods, noted designers, artists and poets, world class jewellers with workshops all over the British Isles, significant contributions to the aerospace industry, marque motor cars, world renowned jet engines, the music, dramatic and performing industry, cult british film-makers, etc, etc, etc. The list goes on and on - as it does for any other western country. Britain is not a spent force - not by a long shot.

Finally, just to be pedantic, even most wedges were ground on a wheel. A pretty damn wide wheel, but one that left some evidence of its curvature on the grind. A real wedge must be a very rare, and a very, very old beast indeed.

Regards,
Neil

Well-said, Mr Miller! As usual!

Regards,
Tom