Sheffields

**gugi** · 02-26-2014, 09:42 AM

Well, Germany has a pretty good industry even at the low end, I think that's why they still make razors, and England doesn't.

France also has Sabatier, which owns TI. English mass-production cutlery is long gone and it probably isn't coming back. They want to compete on luxury products and financial services.

**Anthony1954** · 02-26-2014, 10:04 AM

All I can add is the fact that Sheffield and to a degree Rotherham still manufacture steel for construction and also for cutlery. Now I'm not an expert but surely it wouldn't be a giant step from making knives forks spoons etc to maybe, just maybe producing a straight razor.
Now where should we go from here, well Sheffield is also the home of Edwin Jagger who I'm sure you're familiar with perhaps if representations were made to this Company we might see a revival of straight razor making in the steel capital of the UK.
I think I've read somewhere on here an interview with the man himself so as we all know how popular SR shaving has become and also the fact that this popularity is increasing as evidenced by the increasing number of members on this site, perhaps someone should make an approach.
I'm absolutely convinced that this would be a viable business and there is definitely room in the market place for another manufacturer you only need to look at the present lack of supply to demand.
Another factor seems to be that in this fast paced technological world we now live in people are taking time out to reconnect with a simpler life to maintain some level of sanity.
Just some thoughts to ponder

**Bruno** · 02-26-2014, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by rhensley

With the growing trend to use straight razors I wonder why the Sheffield brands haven't come back. I know that there are some custom blade makers out there and dovo and boker are still going why dosn't some one in England take up the torch sort of speak. I for one would probably try one. Just a thought.

Because there is no mass market for them. It takes quite an investment for a factory to get a line up and running, to get people trained, to get marketing etc in place. Straights are never going to be a mass market item, and while they may make some money, this is a huge investment to make for a rather low and very long term payoff.

Dovo and TI are still in business, but razors are not their main line of business, and they didn't have to make huge investments because they never decommissioned their production line or retired the people making them. And even Dovo is having great difficulty to get qualified personell.

**Bruno** · 02-26-2014, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by Anthony1954

All I can add is the fact that Sheffield and to a degree Rotherham still manufacture steel for construction and also for cutlery. Now I'm not an expert but surely it wouldn't be a giant step from making knives forks spoons etc to maybe, just maybe producing a straight razor.

I wouldn't call myself an expert, but I do make / forge straight razors.

Yes, it IS a giant step. Modern cutlery and even chef knives are stamped out of stock using dies. There is practically no hand work involved. They just drop off the production line, ready for attaching a handle. Razors do have a lot of hand work involved, and more importantly, the difficult parts are performed AFTER heat treatment, by hand.
There is noone left in Sheffield with either the machines, skills or knowledge to make razors in an industrial efficient manner. Kickstarting that would require a hefty financial investment, in return for a fairly meagre return on investment on a rather long timeframe. Companies are not interested in making razors but in making money. They can do more efficient things to make money than to get back into the SR business.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2rlUSCJwWA

**Bruno** · 02-26-2014, 10:37 AM

The best chance I see is trying to approach a company such as Wade and Butchers to see if they would be interested in licesning their branding for straight razors. That way, Wade and Butchers would have SRs back in their line of products, but without needing to invest anything themselves, only taking a percentage by riding on your work. And vice versa you would ride on their coattails in terms of brand name and marketing. It would be a return to cottage style industry.

That could work.

**EisenFaust** · 02-26-2014, 10:38 AM

A Sheffield company like Jagger or Taylor's Eye Witness (who still exist is some form or another) could probably do it as a profit neutral 'halo' thing as they have other mass produced products to keep the money rolling in (like kitchen knives and home wares in the case of Taylor's). I'm assuming all the old equipment (and expertise) is long gone from Sheffield, but a modern CnC shop could easily handle the hard work like cutting out and grinding, leaving the finishing work for generally skilled metal polishers, heat treaters etc. Honing would be tricky but if they were specifically targeting the enthusiast they could leave that for the resellers/ end users. Anyway... would be nice but I won't hold my breath!

**Phrank** · 02-26-2014, 11:25 AM

Bruno said:

"I'm not saying that such machines can't be built for razors. But as I said, it would be a huge investment up front.
And make no mistake, prices are 'high' because there is no supply. If the prices would be subject to agressive competition, they would fall and the market is so small that any profit would quickly fade away to break even at best.

If Dovo and TI were not in a sellers market, their razor business would be killed overnight."

This pretty much sums it up, IMO.

**rhensley** · 02-26-2014, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by Phrank

Bruno said:

"I'm not saying that such machines can't be built for razors. But as I said, it would be a huge investment up front.
And make no mistake, prices are 'high' because there is no supply. If the prices would be subject to agressive competition, they would fall and the market is so small that any profit would quickly fade away to break even at best.

If Dovo and TI were not in a sellers market, their razor business would be killed overnight."

This pretty much sums it up, IMO.

you are probably right But It's like a man in the desert looking at an oasis that really isn't there We can wish can't we

**Phrank** · 02-26-2014, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by rhensley

you are probably right But It's like a man in the desert looking at an oasis that really isn't there We can wish can't we

Know what you mean, but in a sense, what we're talking has happened, just not with straights.

The market for DE's is actually coming back quite strongly, there are more and more shops dedicated to men's grooming, Merkur and Feather (the only two I can name) and are actually manufacturing new safety razors, many of my friends know I use a straight, and that simply will never be for them, but for B-Day's and other gifts, I've given DE starter kits and all have embraced it fully - initially from a economic point of view, then to the great shave, then to the aspect of the quality of the experience if so superior, with the world of using a brush, the fine soaps, and the alum block seems to be a big hit.

I have one buddy, who has now acquired several DE's, he commented the other night that his wife really gets it and like it, better shave, great saving, and fundamentally better products in terms of soaps etc...so we have in fact seen a resurgence in this hobby, it's still very niche, but it is doing well, and is competing, but at best is still a gnat on the bottom of the giant manufacturers. You would think, for cost factors alone, let alone quality of shave, men would be flocking to DE's!?! That alone tells you how precarious this market it, let alone for straights.

And sheesh, if some crazy woman can sue a company like MacDonald's because, horns and thunder, the coffee was actually hot - and WIN!!! Can you imagine the potential liability for straight razors?

Then there was the person who sued a large RV company because they thought, "cruise control" meant auto-drive? Set the cruise control at 55 MPH, left the drivers seat to go back and make breakfast or something - and WON!!!

Just makes you shake your head...Nietzsche may have got it wrong, it isn't God that's dead, it's Darwin....

**JimmyHAD** · 02-26-2014, 12:28 PM

Go over to Newark, NJ, and countless other cities around the USA and see the shells of the rows of factories with their windows broken or boarded up. Converted to condos or torn down. When the world began to be 'global' and the entrepreneurs went 'offshore' the game changed. In the past couple of decades with NAFTA and then China/India coming along manufacturing in the USA became the exception where it used to be the rule. Having to compete with the low wage countries with little or no regulation as far as worker safety and environmental regs makes a lot of things a non starter in the West.

As far as wedges, the Germans perfected hollow grinding in the mid to late 1800s and the wedges largely died out. We come along, razorphiles, and through our nostalgia, and enthusiasm, gravitate toward the old Sheffield wedges and stub tails. Dovo and TI don't make them because there is very little customer base for them. The custom guys make them because they do sell to the cognoscenti and because they can't as easily make full hollows, if they can make them at all. Good for us that so many were made 'back in the day' and most people didn't throw them away.

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