Thread: Sheffields

Originally Posted by Phrank

Bruno said:

"I'm not saying that such machines can't be built for razors. But as I said, it would be a huge investment up front.
And make no mistake, prices are 'high' because there is no supply. If the prices would be subject to agressive competition, they would fall and the market is so small that any profit would quickly fade away to break even at best.

If Dovo and TI were not in a sellers market, their razor business would be killed overnight."

This pretty much sums it up, IMO.

you are probably right But It's like a man in the desert looking at an oasis that really isn't there We can wish can't we

Originally Posted by rhensley

you are probably right But It's like a man in the desert looking at an oasis that really isn't there We can wish can't we

Know what you mean, but in a sense, what we're talking has happened, just not with straights.

The market for DE's is actually coming back quite strongly, there are more and more shops dedicated to men's grooming, Merkur and Feather (the only two I can name) and are actually manufacturing new safety razors, many of my friends know I use a straight, and that simply will never be for them, but for B-Day's and other gifts, I've given DE starter kits and all have embraced it fully - initially from a economic point of view, then to the great shave, then to the aspect of the quality of the experience if so superior, with the world of using a brush, the fine soaps, and the alum block seems to be a big hit.

I have one buddy, who has now acquired several DE's, he commented the other night that his wife really gets it and like it, better shave, great saving, and fundamentally better products in terms of soaps etc...so we have in fact seen a resurgence in this hobby, it's still very niche, but it is doing well, and is competing, but at best is still a gnat on the bottom of the giant manufacturers. You would think, for cost factors alone, let alone quality of shave, men would be flocking to DE's!?! That alone tells you how precarious this market it, let alone for straights.

And sheesh, if some crazy woman can sue a company like MacDonald's because, horns and thunder, the coffee was actually hot - and WIN!!! Can you imagine the potential liability for straight razors?

Then there was the person who sued a large RV company because they thought, "cruise control" meant auto-drive? Set the cruise control at 55 MPH, left the drivers seat to go back and make breakfast or something - and WON!!!

Just makes you shake your head...Nietzsche may have got it wrong, it isn't God that's dead, it's Darwin....

Go over to Newark, NJ, and countless other cities around the USA and see the shells of the rows of factories with their windows broken or boarded up. Converted to condos or torn down. When the world began to be 'global' and the entrepreneurs went 'offshore' the game changed. In the past couple of decades with NAFTA and then China/India coming along manufacturing in the USA became the exception where it used to be the rule. Having to compete with the low wage countries with little or no regulation as far as worker safety and environmental regs makes a lot of things a non starter in the West.

As far as wedges, the Germans perfected hollow grinding in the mid to late 1800s and the wedges largely died out. We come along, razorphiles, and through our nostalgia, and enthusiasm, gravitate toward the old Sheffield wedges and stub tails. Dovo and TI don't make them because there is very little customer base for them. The custom guys make them because they do sell to the cognoscenti and because they can't as easily make full hollows, if they can make them at all. Good for us that so many were made 'back in the day' and most people didn't throw them away.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Go over to Newark, NJ, and countless other cities around the USA and see the shells of the rows of factories with their windows broken or boarded up. Converted to condos or torn down. When the world began to be 'global' and the entrepreneurs went 'offshore' the game changed. In the past couple of decades with NAFTA and then China/India coming along manufacturing in the USA became the exception where it used to be the rule. Having to compete with the low wage countries with little or no regulation as far as worker safety and environmental regs makes a lot of things a non starter in the West.

As far as wedges, the Germans perfected hollow grinding in the mid to late 1800s and the wedges largely died out. We come along, razorphiles, and through our nostalgia, and enthusiasm, gravitate toward the old Sheffield wedges and stub tails. Dovo and TI don't make them because there is very little customer base for them. The custom guys make them because they do sell to the cognoscenti and because they can't as easily make full hollows, if they can make them at all. Good for us that so many were made 'back in the day' and most people didn't throw them away.

JimmyHAD,

I was not aware that full-hollow razors were actually more difficult to manufacture (or require more equipment) than wedges. I assumed, since the hollow grounds became so prevalent, that they must have been both cheaper and easier to make.

Originally Posted by Bordee

JimmyHAD,

I was not aware that full-hollow razors were actually more difficult to manufacture (or require more equipment) than wedges. I assumed, since the hollow grounds became so prevalent, that they must have been both cheaper and easier to make.

There is an old short video that TI put out showing an artisan hollow grinding a blade. There are two wheels opposed to each other on some sort of flexible mounting. The blade is inserted horizontally, IIRC, with the edge up and the sparks fly. A friend of mine was trying to duplicate this machine, but AFAIK he hasn't got it yet. I'm not sure if that is typical of the hollow grinding machines that were developed in the 1800s but when we think of the paper thin thickness of a full hollow it must take quite a bit of skill, and a precise machining process to produce them.

Originally Posted by Bordee

JimmyHAD,

I was not aware that full-hollow razors were actually more difficult to manufacture (or require more equipment) than wedges. I assumed, since the hollow grounds became so prevalent, that they must have been both cheaper and easier to make.

Yes and no.

They became popular because they are much easier to hone and maintain.
Hollow grinding like that is done by running 2 identical wheel VERY close to each other, with water running over them, and then pushing the razor in between. You need som every robust equipment to do that reliably. Iirc the hollow grinder they use at dovo is still an original one, made from cast iron. It weighs a ton and is pretty much ireplaceable. Making a new one would be expensive if it has to have the same quality.

Virtually all custom makers use a single wheel setup, and have to grind each side independently.
The closer you get to hollow, the more heat becomes a true problem. that, and since you have to do it by hand, it takes a lot of patience to make a razor that thin without accidentally destroying it.

I can make a blade 'pretty hollow' but that still takes me a lot more time than a solingen grinder would need to produce hollow ground razors.

Here's the vid ....... check it out ;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39gHw5vbPYU

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Here's the vid ....... check it out ;

That's a nice video Jimmy - thanks for posting it.

Having watched it I have now worked out why so many TIs have small 'humps' on the spine near the stabiliser end!

Regards,
Neil