Thread: Sheffields

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Go over to Newark, NJ, and countless other cities around the USA and see the shells of the rows of factories with their windows broken or boarded up. Converted to condos or torn down. When the world began to be 'global' and the entrepreneurs went 'offshore' the game changed. In the past couple of decades with NAFTA and then China/India coming along manufacturing in the USA became the exception where it used to be the rule. Having to compete with the low wage countries with little or no regulation as far as worker safety and environmental regs makes a lot of things a non starter in the West.

As far as wedges, the Germans perfected hollow grinding in the mid to late 1800s and the wedges largely died out. We come along, razorphiles, and through our nostalgia, and enthusiasm, gravitate toward the old Sheffield wedges and stub tails. Dovo and TI don't make them because there is very little customer base for them. The custom guys make them because they do sell to the cognoscenti and because they can't as easily make full hollows, if they can make them at all. Good for us that so many were made 'back in the day' and most people didn't throw them away.

JimmyHAD,

I was not aware that full-hollow razors were actually more difficult to manufacture (or require more equipment) than wedges. I assumed, since the hollow grounds became so prevalent, that they must have been both cheaper and easier to make.

Originally Posted by Bordee

JimmyHAD,

I was not aware that full-hollow razors were actually more difficult to manufacture (or require more equipment) than wedges. I assumed, since the hollow grounds became so prevalent, that they must have been both cheaper and easier to make.

There is an old short video that TI put out showing an artisan hollow grinding a blade. There are two wheels opposed to each other on some sort of flexible mounting. The blade is inserted horizontally, IIRC, with the edge up and the sparks fly. A friend of mine was trying to duplicate this machine, but AFAIK he hasn't got it yet. I'm not sure if that is typical of the hollow grinding machines that were developed in the 1800s but when we think of the paper thin thickness of a full hollow it must take quite a bit of skill, and a precise machining process to produce them.

Originally Posted by Bordee

JimmyHAD,

I was not aware that full-hollow razors were actually more difficult to manufacture (or require more equipment) than wedges. I assumed, since the hollow grounds became so prevalent, that they must have been both cheaper and easier to make.

Yes and no.

They became popular because they are much easier to hone and maintain.
Hollow grinding like that is done by running 2 identical wheel VERY close to each other, with water running over them, and then pushing the razor in between. You need som every robust equipment to do that reliably. Iirc the hollow grinder they use at dovo is still an original one, made from cast iron. It weighs a ton and is pretty much ireplaceable. Making a new one would be expensive if it has to have the same quality.

Virtually all custom makers use a single wheel setup, and have to grind each side independently.
The closer you get to hollow, the more heat becomes a true problem. that, and since you have to do it by hand, it takes a lot of patience to make a razor that thin without accidentally destroying it.

I can make a blade 'pretty hollow' but that still takes me a lot more time than a solingen grinder would need to produce hollow ground razors.

Here's the vid ....... check it out ;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39gHw5vbPYU

Originally Posted by rhensley

...dovo and boker are still going...

Sort of. With retails around $250 they even don't bother to set bevels on some of their new stock, let alone make a new razor shave-ready. Damn hard to buy a decent new buggy whip, too.

This makes me glad there is the Gold Dollar and their ilk. If nothing else they siphon off the faintly curious who will then leave it in a drawer and forget the whole thing or move on to some magnificent shaving done in mounds of MDC with the scent of Clubman wafting in the air....In the short time I have been interested in vintage razors the prices have been rising and I don't expect them to reverse. The old timers tell the stories of what used to be...maybe 6 years ago and rip your heart out with the prices of classic razors. There will be a void which will not be filled because very few people can afford a custom razor. If I wasn't at work, I think I'd go grab a beer right now. I'm with Hirlau, no resurrections!

To be quite honest razors were always a small part of any of the large companies product line. Factories such as Wostenholme's, Rodgers, etc produced much greater quantities of table cutlery, bowies, daggers, pen-knives, pocket-knives, knives of every sort for every application from marine to veterinary to aboriculture, silverware, silver plated goods, hollow ware than they did razors. In fact old advertisements, trade catalogues, fliers, etc, say 'cutlery of every description' more often than not. Razors fell out of the line-up long before the other items did.

Other things adding to the downfall of these giants were the early Trade Acts, depression, two world wars with an inter-war depression, the seizure of factories by the Ministry of Defence to make armour plating, ordnance, munitions etc to protect the civilised world from the might of Axis fascists and the turn to cheaper produce for everyday use rather than silver and silver plate and King C Gillette taking over the vast share of the shaving market.

Echoes of the past are still to be found if one searches them out though. For instance, big as they were most of the big companies made use of the 'little meister', a time-served apprentice and journeyman who had his own small concern. These men were hired and let go en-masse as and when market trends dictated. One might say, with some justification, that the last example of little meister in Sheffield was Stan Shaw, but there are others that kept the tradition going - Trevor Ablett springs to mind. But the emphasis had shifted - razors were no longer in demand, so these people specialised in making those things that are still very collectable, mainly custom knives. There are still what may be considered masters in the trade - they might not have served a long apprenticeship or had any formal training, but nevertheless their abilities are beyond question. Custom knife and razor makers fall into this category.

Even today, setting up business as a latter-day little meister, providing you have the necessary skills, seems eminently do-able, but when we push the envelope to consider the mighty factories and workforce and skill-base of times gone by, then that is of course beyond the pale. A bank manager might secure you a loan to set up in business as an individual, but as a large company devoted to making one niche product with very limited appeal - forget it.

Another echo is the use of British Steel in modern razors. Anyone who has handled even a small amount of modern offerings from different makers cannot failed to have noted - and possibly surprised - by the words "Finest Sheffield Steel" proudly stamped (or - a sign of modern convenience and lack of quality, laser etched) on the tang of some of them.

As for using an old, once well respected name to sell a modern offering by, then that goes against the grain as far as I am concerned (did you see what I did then - 'against the grain'? I'm on all week, folks!). I have seen far too many duff modern offerings using revered names from the past, like G&F and Boker, to place any respect in this marketing ploy. Any decent tool - and that's all a razor really is, a tool - stands by itself and makes it's own name. It does not need to piggy-back on the hard work of those long gone. Not all modern offerings by the two companies I mentioned are bad, of course, but a fairly significant amount are. Even Dovo and TI seem to have trouble honing their own product to shave worthiness, and some low-end, low QC, re-branded Dovos seem to have been made by people wearing blindfolds for some sort of a joke.

Another thing that strikes me as an evil is the prevalence of low-class, cheap cr*p razors from the east. I believe then to be a sly, creeping, pervasive evil that has a potential to kill the market. Some. like the GDs, can be made serviceable - if you have the time and inclination - but most are just inferior rubbish. The people who buy them must know little or nothing about straight razors, so it is arguable that they are not in a position to 'fix-em-up' in which case they either seek someone to do it (which often costs more than the razor did) or they sling it in a draw in disgust. What are those disgusted would-be straight razor users going to do about it? Some might remain silent and stoical, some may tell their friends about the garbage they have just bought, and then two people are put off, probably for good.

As for Britain not producing much, that is pretty much the story for most western nations now that factories can be erected in the East where overhead is a fraction of the price, never mind the cost of the labour - some of those people are little more than exploited slaves. Still, the West has a long tradition in exploiting weaker peoples for its own good - some things don't change.

But one can adopt the viewpoint of Johnny Mercer as put across so ably by dear old Bing - Accentuate The Positive. Look closer and Britain still produces a phenomenal amount of home-grown product. There are textile mills, tweeds, whiskey, bespoke Saville Row suit makers, esteemed gentlemens shoemakers, hunting and fishing and shooting suppliers and makers - some of the finest shotguns in the world come from Britain. There are potteries turning out top-notch goods, noted designers, artists and poets, world class jewellers with workshops all over the British Isles, significant contributions to the aerospace industry, marque motor cars, world renowned jet engines, the music, dramatic and performing industry, cult british film-makers, etc, etc, etc. The list goes on and on - as it does for any other western country. Britain is not a spent force - not by a long shot.

Finally, just to be pedantic, even most wedges were ground on a wheel. A pretty damn wide wheel, but one that left some evidence of its curvature on the grind. A real wedge must be a very rare, and a very, very old beast indeed.

Regards,
Neil

Well-said, Mr Miller! As usual!

Regards,
Tom

So if we assume that industrial scale production is not going to happen are there any UK based custom razor makers currently active?

Interesting thread! More then likely if some Sheffield company would start production of razors they would command a hefty price. The demand is not there i believed, nevertheless dont dispair and go vintage, so many available.

The few newer razors that i had the chance to try were fine, that said you can never go wrong with vintage.