Thread: Damascus Razor? Wilbert...

Question...trying to understand Damascus steel in a razor. I got this razor off of ebay. It is a Wilbert that says Damascus Steel on the blade. I am not kidding myself that this is the same material in some of the TI razors or in the Mastro Levi that is being discussed in the forums.

So the question is...exactly what IS the composition of this razor's blade? Is it stainless, carbon...certainly not Wootz.

Originaly Damscus steel was used in swords. It can be identified by the pattern in the steel if it is true damascus. It was formed by taking two types of steel on hard one soft. these were then hammer welded together folded then hammered flat , folded ,hammered (or forged) some times as many as 20 or 30 times some times more .hence the pattern in the steel.
hope this sheds some light on the subect.

Just to pitch in my 2 cents:

The reason the smiths of old did this was to even out the carbon content of the steel, to get the steel more homogenous and thus better in quality than what could be made otherwise. Nowadays it's possible to make steel which is much better than what they had back then, so nowadays pattern welded steel (what is commonly referred to as "Damascus" steel) is mainly a matter of aesthetics. Some like the way the steel looks when it's pattern welded, but as for the function, there should be no difference between homogenous steel and pattern welded steel. In fact, pattern welding can make the blade lose some structural integrity if the welding is faulty.

And, of course, pattern welded blades are much more expensive.

Actually, Wootz or crucible steel is the 'real' Damascus and the patterned, layered steels that you see today are not true Damascus, but are properly called Damascene. Damascus blades were rumored to have been able to cut through an opponents sword on the battlefield. Layered steel is not without legend as well. It is by this method that Japanese sword makers made the samurai swords. The folding of the steel mixed the harder steel into the lesser steel, providing, on average a harder edge face without the diluting associated with a remelt. My $0.02 -

As a note, currently available alloys commonly used for knifes are much harder than Damascus ever was if the research is correct. It was just better for the time.

John

Like it or not, John, most people will continue to call pattern welded steel "Damascus". I think even people in the know refer to the original Damascus steel as "wootz", and pattern welded steel as "Damascus", in an "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" sort of deal.

I ain't joining the ignorant brigade. it doesn't take much thought to see that this approach would lead us all to intellectual decline.

Sorry, but I think you guys are missing the original posters question. He was not asking, "What is Damascus?". He is also aware that the razor he purchased is not Damascus Steel. If I am understanding his post correctly he is asking, "What kind of steel is this razor really made out of?" If I am wrong just ignore me.

All this info is good. I am very interested in metallurgy and the history of metals and fabrication in general.

1Adam12 is correct...I am specifically curious about this razor. I attached the pics to illustrate:
- It says "Damascus Steel" on the blade
- Company name is "Wilbert"
- The blade is relatively thick but with no patterning or visible layering. It looks like a regular straight blade.

So I was wondering if this was some sort of variation on Damascus Steel or a marketing gimmick by the original company, etc.

This has come up either here or on the old Yahoo SRP, in the past, with people posting all sorts of in depth metallurgical things about Wootz, where it really came from (it was mainly called Damascus because that is where it was sold, not necessarily made) pattern welding, and all sorts of things like that.
Regardless, it also came up that most of the razors (like yours) marked "Damascus Steel" were done so for marketing purposes. Perhaps those razors received a little better treatment or some such, and "Damascus" was still considered to be the steel of legends. Much like calling a knife or a razor "Excalibur" or violin manufacturers having a "Stradivarius" model, even though it is not the same thing.
The history of the thing is pretty interesting, though; apparently in the original Wootz steel, there was an impurity in the ore where it was forged which contributed to its strength as well as some of the patterns through the steel when forged into blades. (true Wootz is much more subdued than most pattern-weld Damascus, you sometimes actually have to look closer to see it, but that was something lost to the ages when that razor (and mine, much like it) was made-) Don't remember what they thought the impurity was, perhaps Vanadium or something(?)
Interesting stuff.
But in short, your razor (and mine-I have one somewhere with similar markings) is more likely made of the same grade of steel as all the other razors made by that company...Hope this helps.
And if anyone remembers more about the metallurgical discoveries related to Wootz, feel free to post it again. VERY interesting stuff.
John P.

TWM-
I picked up one similar on eBay (mine doesn't say Wilbert - some other seller - but does have 'Damascus' on the blade) - and I'm sure that it's a classic example of turn-of-the -century over-hyped-heres-a-good-name marketing. I can't tell you the type of steel (probably a carbon steel by the way it tarnishes), so enjoy it for what it is....probably a pretty good shaver.

(...now, about my eBay 'Ivory' handled razor..well, that wasn't marketing...that was just lies!...)

-whatever

-Lou