Thread: First straight razor, Ralf Aust or Revisor

Originally Posted by RobinK

I cannot, and will not, speak for Thomas. Personally, however, I find your disposable analogy libellous. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.

I don't know. Maybe I misunderstood you. But based on your statements, shave readiness is not an issue and practically no one offers honing services. That must mean that everyone is for the most part just living with sub par edges like the one shown. Or maybe every sub par edge that comes out of the factory is exported to the US. I don't know. I won't argue the matter further. Its a shaving forum. If you're happy with your shave, I'm happy for you.

Originally Posted by Utopian

Both Revisors were direct from Revisor and they were far from shave ready. I have not honed one of them yet so I will try to take photos of the factory edge some time soon.

This is my original declaration that this razor came direct from the factory. I have never done anything to the edge other than to observe it under a microscope. I set it aside with the intention of using it for honing video.

Originally Posted by RobinK

Remarkable. Lack of shave readiness is a non issue in the German forums. It is a major issue here. Incidentally the German forums have no honing services industry. True, there are a few people who offer honing, but they are few and far between.

That is not to say that the edge on that particular Revisor looks not too good. Then again, I have learned to never believe what I see on the Internet until it has been corroborated. Did that razor come straight from the maker? Maybe it did. Maybe it did not. For me, there is no way of telling. However, I have owned several Revisor razors, none of which had any issues. I know the people who make them, and I find it very, very hard to believe that this razor slipped thorough their QA process. Not impossible, of course. People make mistakes. But highly unlikely.

So, lack of shave readiness. The German forums have come to the conclusion that a distinction between "shave readiness" and "connoisseur sharpness" makes sense, and reduces the stress level otherwise present in the ensuing discussions. Yes, almost any "factory" (calling Aust and Revisor that is slightly silly, though, they really are artisans, trained by or making use of the craftsmen who made a lot of the razors everyone is still waxing lyrical about) can be further enhanced. However, connoisseur sharpness is not required to shave. It is a pastime that some find entertaining. Me, I have never liked that level of sharpness. Many others don't, either. If I were making razors, I would try to cater to the needs of the majority of my customers. And it would seem that the majority of customers gets by with "factory edges". Putting a connoisseur edge on a razor would also, by the way, increase prices for razors from the EU drastically.

I am not a liar. To suggest otherwise might be considered libelous.

Lack of shave readiness is not an issue for most people who know how to hone. I don't care what the German forums have to say about shave readiness. A major part of the intention of THIS forum is helping new people who have NO experience with straight razors and getting stuck with a new razor that cannot shave is not helpful for them.

There is a bit of a leap between "shave readiness" and "connoisseur sharpness." I would at least expect a shave ready edge to be straight and not to be folded over. The video showed that mine was neither.

Originally Posted by OCDshaver

I don't know but "connoisseur sharpness" seems like a dismissive excuse for a lousy edge. Perhaps one shaver prefers the feel of one edge (natural vs. synthetic) over another. But in Utopians vid you can clearly see spots where the bevel is ruined or not fully established. In any case, its hardly consistent or clean. I get why it comes this way. Each razor would need the same additional care and attention that we put into it before it leaves the shop. That's a lot of man power if you're producing in any quantity. But, in my eyes, unless you hone a razor like the one in the vid, you're not seeing the true potential that razor offers. If my standards were that low I'd still be using a drug store disposable.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by RobinK

I don't think anyone is arguing that the edge in the video has a lot of potential. So why make that an issue? And who knows, maybe it did come from the "factory" like that.

Connoisseur sharpness is nothing more than an additional level of sharpness not required for shaving but appreciated by a fraction of users. For the chuckles, I let a beginner try stropping a few blades with connoisseur edges (synthetic and natural) . He brought them back to "dull but shaves" within a few strokes.

I cannot, and will not, speak for Thomas. Personally, however, I find your disposable analogy libellous. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.

Why make it an issue?

Because beginners, like the one who started this thread asked for OPINIONS. In some of our opinions we stated that a truly shave ready (connoisseur or not) razor might be a better start for a beginner. Potential is not an issue. If we go by potential, then I could advertise a razor for sale and if Bruno or Spazola bought it I could get away with sending them a chunk of steel. It has the potential to be a shave ready razor. (In Mike Blue's case I could just send dirt.) Shave Ready, at least for the perspective of a beginner here in this forum, in my opinion should mean ready to shave.

To the OP modaresi,
I forgot to address your other question that I don't think has been addressed quite as extensively.

The Timber Tools thuringian (it ain't an Escher if it did come not from the Escher company) has been reviewed here and elsewhere. You may want to do a bit of searching to come up with your own opinion on that one.

Originally Posted by RobinK

Interesting point, Bob. However, Dovo do operate a factory. As, I am sure, do the Chinese makers. Aust, Revisor and Wacker operate Kotten. The term "artisan" is at best misleading, and does not apply to Solingen manufacture anyway. We are talking about skilled craftsmen (cf dual education system) and decades of knowledge. Artisan makers are, by definition, self taught, which means they have to reinvent each and every wheel. This approach may appeal to some. I personally prefer things that work, and have a sensible price/performance ratio.

Let's agree to disagree with regards to nomenclature. For me, a razor either shaves, or it does not. The rest is a) totally personal (cf the myriads of hone wars here), and b) seems to be more of a cultural thing (cf German forums).

Most certainly we can agree to disagree wrt nomenclature.

Oth, as for a razor either shaves or doesn't, that is a complete over simplification imo. Personally I throw out a DE blade when it gets to the point where it starts tugging a bit and gives a shave that is no longer smooth and comfortable. However it will still shave after a fashion.

With a straight razor that has a blade providing a similar shave a simple touch up on a finishing hone will bring it back to shave ready if a good stropping fails to do so. I think that is the point on some factory edges as received from a new razor taken from a sealed razor box. It may shave after a fashion but needs that little bit extra to make it give a comfortable and smooth shave. It's a small but important difference.

Yes there certainly is no lack of cultural differences on a multi national forum. In the end it is whatever is acceptable and works for an individual as there are many different ways to the same end.

Bob

Originally Posted by Utopian

Why make it an issue?

Because beginners, like the one who started this thread asked for OPINIONS. In some of our opinions we stated that a truly shave ready (connoisseur or not) razor might be a better start for a beginner. Potential is not an issue. If we go by potential, then I could advertise a razor for sale and if Bruno or Spazola bought it I could get away with sending them a chunk of steel. It has the potential to be a shave ready razor. (In Mike Blue's case I could just send dirt.) Shave Ready, at least for the perspective of a beginner here in this forum, in my opinion should mean ready to shave.

There is just a bit of truth to that and humourously put too.

Oh no - another bit of jargon I hate - 'connoisseur edge' - totally unnecessary, in my humble opinion.

I shall just have to shelve it in my 'mental' bin along with 'artisanal' and all the other awkward looking/sounding bits of twaddle that have been coined by people with too much time on their hands...

Regards,
Neil

Originally Posted by Neil Miller

Oh no - another bit of jargon I hate - 'connoisseur edge' - totally unnecessary, in my humble opinion.

I shall just have to shelve it in my 'mental' bin along with 'artisanal' and all the other awkward looking/sounding bits of twaddle that have been coined by people with too much time on their hands...

Regards,
Neil

I have to admit that the term 'artisinal' has lost any meaning since the day I saw a segment on TV about artisinal TOAST at $4/slice. If you live long enough you get to see everything I guess.

I quite like the term, though. The term "honemeister" edge, which is often used to describe the same effect, is grossly misleading. There is one Honemeister, and it seems that the humorous part of the term seems to have got lost in the sands of time. Then there are commercial honesters cashing in on the mythical shaving experiences only to be made with razors that have passed... uhh... I forget - what is the madness du jour? Is it still "JNat's"? Are we back to hone progressions with a minimum of 7 hones? Are strop progressions still a thing?

I digress. I like the term connoisseur because it denotes two things. One, the blade has been manipulated to match the specific taste of one individual. Two, they are expensive to obtain, and impossible to maintain for anyone but a proficient honer.

Thing is, I have never been able to maintain a honemeister/connoisseur edge for more than three shaves. After that, it would have been "back to the hones". I am, however, lazy, and get perfectly acceptable shaves with a shave ready razor. Think "SE blade after four shaves". Not killer, but still smooth.

That Revisor? If I had received one like it, I would have sent it back, end of story. Revisor have outstanding customer service, and that blade clearly should not have hit the market in this state. Never seen one like it, and I don't think I ever will, though.

I think the spirit of this or any shaving forum should help a newcomer get the best possible experience from this hobby. It goes without saying that a shave ready razor should be "Shave Tested" its the only test that can truly quantify whether a new blade can really shave in acceptable manner. The overstressed producers of today have no way of injecting the amount of effort or time to make sure of this. Yes they all seem to have tests where they cleave some synthetic fibers and if it cuts it gets boxed and out it goes. I could get razor to pass a test like that off of a 1k stone but I wouldn't even think of shaving with it.
So I think it is important that a new straight razor user doesn't have the experience I had when going to a major shaving retail store purchasing a very nice dovo or thiers issard taking it home lathering my face in great anticipation and then having the blade pull painfully hard mid cheek until my eyes teared. That's enough for some folks to say this was all a silly experiment and go back to a mach 3. So it is a good thing that some vendors take the time to prepare these blades for the end user that they have a nice experience and are inspired to continue.

Given that hepatitis b viruses can survive for up to seven days, a "shave tested" razor is the last thing I want. Even more so if the person shave testing them does a lot of shave testing using razors sent to them quite recently.

We are, if I may add, wildly off topic by now. Maybe this particular subject ought to be discussed separately.