Thread: Vintage Puma or new Revisor?

My point was that products are produced with all kinds of advertising claims which usually turn out to have little basis in fact.

I've never understood why we have these continual discussions on German made Razors like there is this myth about German made products.

It should be understood universally the razor manufacture was and is no different than watch manufacturers. Most of the parts are sourced and the nameplate just assembles them. Only certain large outfits do all the fabrication or most of it.

Razors are common items that were made by the millions.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

I've never understood why we have these continual discussions on German made Razors like there is this myth about German made products.

There is no myth. They are just typically superior to most other products, because our engineers are quite decent, and our process management is typically not too shoddy, either. Which is why we blew the entire Sheffield cutlery business out of the water. Or turned Land Rover and Jaguar from an expensive joke into highly competitive brands.

Seriously though, Nelson, that's beside the point, too. Puma or Revisor?

Funnily enough, one could turn the question around, and come to a more interesting result: Vintage Revisor, or modern Puma.

Interesting, because Puma use Herkenrath blades, too, these days. So they should be as good as modern Revisoren. But they are not. They are way behind. So much so that they ought to be on the list of razors to avoid, along with any other razor made by Simbatec.

That vintage Revisor, however... I'd much rather have one of those than a vintage Puma. I tend to listen to the people who actually made such razors, and they laugh about Puma, but quite like Revisor.

A friendly suggestion: Learn some German, and visit the German forums. You will be in for quite a few surprises.

Originally Posted by RobinK

There is no myth. They are just typically superior to most other products, because our engineers are quite decent, and our process management is typically not too shoddy, either. Which is why we blew the entire Sheffield cutlery business out of the water. Or turned Land Rover and Jaguar from an expensive joke into highly competitive brands.

Seriously though, Nelson, that's beside the point, too. Puma or Revisor?

Funnily enough, one could turn the question around, and come to a more interesting result: Vintage Revisor, or modern Puma.

Interesting, because Puma use Herkenrath blades, too, these days. So they should be as good as modern Revisoren. But they are not. They are way behind. So much so that they ought to be on the list of razors to avoid, along with any other razor made by Simbatec.

That vintage Revisor, however... I'd much rather have one of those than a vintage Puma. I tend to listen to the people who actually made such razors, and they laugh about Puma, but quite like Revisor.

A friendly suggestion: Learn some German, and visit the German forums. You will be in for quite a few surprises.

When you make statements like those above it undermines your premise IMHO. I've had, and still do have both vintage Puma, and vintage Revisor. Both extremely fine pieces of workmanship, but to say that Revisor was superior just doesn't prove true IME. YMMV.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

When you make statements like those above it undermines your premise IMHO. I've had, and still do have both vintage Puma, and vintage Revisor. Both extremely fine pieces of workmanship, but to say that Revisor was superior just doesn't prove true IME. YMMV.

I never claimed that they were. Revisoren are far less common, and I like the unusual razor. But the thing is, the people who actually made these razors say that Puma were cheap, and mass produced, and absolutely nothing to write home about. That does not make them bad razors (seriously, has anyone ever come about a genuinely bad vintage Solingen or Eskilstuna razor?), just undesirable. For me. IMVHO. YMMV.

Originally Posted by RobinK

I never claimed that they were. Revisoren are far less common, and I like the unusual razor. But the thing is, the people who actually made these razors say that Puma were cheap, and mass produced, and absolutely nothing to write home about. That does not make them bad razors (seriously, has anyone ever come about a genuinely bad vintage Solingen or Eskilstuna razor?), just undesirable. For me. IMVHO. YMMV.

I wouldn't say "just undesirable" but rather unrecognized being not too often encountered.

Bob

Originally Posted by RobinK

I never claimed that they were. Revisoren are far less common, and I like the unusual razor. But the thing is, the people who actually made these razors say that Puma were cheap, and mass produced, and absolutely nothing to write home about. That does not make them bad razors (seriously, has anyone ever come about a genuinely bad vintage Solingen or Eskilstuna razor?), just undesirable. For me. IMVHO. YMMV.

A few very old men reminiscing may or may not be impartial and/or accurate. Also there is the the time period. Having a few Puma/Ducks and examining them I've always thought that Puma made the dubl ducks, at least for part of the time. The older vintage Pumas were great razors of high quality AFAIC.



There is no doubt that the latter days of Puma saw the quality of the brand decline. Perhaps that is what those old fellows are referring to ? OTOH, compare a Fritz Bracht , or Dorp-Voos to the current Dovos. Not that the current production isn't good, but those were in a different class IMO. The same, IME, can be said for Revisor.

Incidentally, I am aware that in the last days of the Pearlson era dubl ducks were made by Dovo, but in the hey day of Bresnik I think it was Puma that made 'em. I could be wrong ........ you know the rest.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

A few very old men reminiscing may or may not be impartial and/or accurate. Also there is the the time period.

There may be gazillions of reasons, Jimmy. But don't forget that Solingen is small. Very small. And collective knowledge is massive. Personally, I'd much rather trust a few very old men than some unknown people on the internet when it comes to historic knowledge.

Seriously, how many of you speak German? How many those who do have read any of the old books? That is a serious question, because those books contain a massive amount of knowledge lost in time.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Having a few Puma/Ducks and examining them I've always thought that Puma made the dubl ducks, at least for part of the time. The older vintage Pumas were great razors of high quality AFAIC.

Everyone made Dubl Ducks. And I own a few vintage Puma razors, and they are nice. But not, say, Camel Rider nice. Or any of the other obscure brands made for the highest quality market. Just nice. Which is more than good enough to shave with them in my opinion.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

There is no doubt that the latter days of Puma saw the quality of the brand decline. Perhaps that is what those old fellows are referring to ? OTOH, compare a Fritz Bracht , or Dorp-Voos to the current Dovos. Not that the current production isn't good, but those were in a different class IMO. The same, IME, can be said for Revisor.

They were talking about post war production, of course. But not the abominations sold under the Puma brand these days. And current production Dovo razors are, well, not very exciting. In fact, several vendors I know have either phased them out already, or are actively looking for higher quality alternatives (of which, of course, there aren't really any).

That said, I cannot find fault with modern Revisoren. I know who makes them, and I trust these people as much as I would have trusted their 1950s or 1960s equivalents. That 8/8 Dubl Duck they made for me is absolutely impeccable. As is any other modern Revisor I own. And yes, I like the new Herkenrath steel a lot.

Originally Posted by RobinK

I like the new Herkenrath steel a lot.

I'm curious to know more about this steel. How does it compare to the "Bismarck blades" you mentioned earlier?

Originally Posted by vileru

I'm curious to know more about this steel. How does it compare to the "Bismarck blades" you mentioned earlier?

They are the same. Herkenrath forge stainless and carbon steel blanks for, well, everyone.