Thread: Older razors, are they better?

Originally Posted by Firefighter2

Anything older is always better quality, IMHO. Vintage razors were made with pride and good materials, as was most of everything else back then.

Fun fact: Razor making was piecework. The grinders worked so fast that they threw the semi-finished blades over their shoulders where apprentices collected them.

I do not quite know where the romanticism comes from, but if you actually talk to the people in Solingen, they will tell you that razor making was hard work, not very well paid, and mostly completely faceless, ie the majority of it was OEM work.

Originally Posted by RobinK

Fun fact: Razor making was piecework. The grinders worked so fast that they threw the semi-finished blades over their shoulders where apprentices collected them.

I do not quite know where the romanticism comes from, but if you actually talk to the people in Solingen, they will tell you that razor making was hard work, not very well paid, and mostly completely faceless, ie the majority of it was OEM work.

I hear what you're saying, but how is that different than Dovo, TI or others stamping out razors, and essentially sending them down a line where a few people do some work and toss the blade on to the next. I've seen the video's, and it seems to me, just machines doing most of the work with a few people touching them up at the end. If anything, seems they spend less time on each razor and really don't have the skill-set of the old makers.

Frankly, I doubt this was "tossed" over some apprentices shoulder, and I'll take it's craftsmanship any day of the week, day or month from some stamped modern day razor hands down...as always, just my opinion and preference.

A tough question with a myriad of answers, but, having been a tradesman in the metalworking field my entire life, I must agree with Robin ... although, I have no history of pre-war working conditions, but I know enough of my history to have the ability to make a good guess!

Sweet Razor Phrank, I wonder where an M. Livi razor Falls in all this?

I believe that Every single razor is in its own as to quality of grind, Heat treat, final finish.

Then you add your own personal preference as to what makes one razor better than the others.

Another thought on design, and again, I agree with Robin... Albeit, no one can account for personal taste.

I'm a firm believer in the old adage that "form follows function." In my opinion, any tool will evolve in form and utility to it's ultimate design. A design we see in the majority of Vintage, and many new blades. Then come the Customs. Some are actually fashioned in a manner that seems to exclude all utility .. to the point that I do not understand how anyone could strop and actually shave with them. Now, I understand that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and many of these pieces are "one off" works of art, fashioned at the behest of the owner, and that is certainly their right... I guess I'm of a different ilk... I've only got one bespoke Custom blade, and I gave the builder carte blanche in some design areas, but the shape of the blade and scales are strictly traditional .. read functional.

I appreciate the odd looking wild customs. but another old Engineering axiom springs to mind ... "Less is More!"

But again... To each his own.

Originally Posted by FAL

I wonder where an M. Livi razor Falls in all this?

Artisan.


Mastro Livi is in the the enviable position to make what he likes, at the pace he likes, when he likes.



B.



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Well, as so often is the case I assume there is no right or wrong answer here, I have to say that on face value my new Dovo would appear to be built to a similar standard as my new Revisor and certainly seems to shave just as well. In comparison to my vintage items neither of the new razors seem to offer the same substantial feel provided by my 1960's vintage Henckels, or 1920's Bengall, and for me it is a certainty that my best shaver is the Henckels (so close and smooth you'd think I'd used some modern multi-bladed monstrosity straight from the pack), although as it is a square point I have to adopt a little more caution; it is also the least forgiving of inattention of all my razors.

I'll put up my vintage 5/8th's W.H. Morley & Son's razors, my #19 Wm. Elliot & Co. or my nice Worchester 6/8 th's razor against any these "new" razors any day of the week and win. I would rather have 3 or 4 <$40.00 nice E-Bay razors than a new Revisor, Aust, or Dovo any day. I also have a Bengall with another on the way that shaves very nice an smooth, (2 pass shave, WTG, ATG).

I asked my 80 year old Italian barber friend this question and he said take out your razors. I laid out the 3 vintage Puma's, Flilamonica, Genco's, Ontario's, DD and my newbies, Mastro Livi's, Aust's, Bokers, Dovo's and more. He said you are comparing apples and oranges. The steel, grinds and fact most were mass produced older ones compared to The Austs and Livi's that are custom or semi-custom. He said the extra hollow grinds would be rare back in his days. They would not hold up for someone who had only one or two razors. He did really like my Livi's. He took my new Livi with a 6/8 damascus stainless steel for a shave and came back and said it is the Rolls Royce of razors but for the average golfer with limited honing skills the older ones would be preferable. I have to say my Genco's and Puma's really hold their edge with very little maintenance.

I personally don't like extra hollows myself, I like hollows, quarter and half hollows, also I find Stainless steel very hard to sharpen from scratch and maintain, give me a good carbon steel blade any day, too me they are easier to sharpen (put a bevel on them etc.) and maintain, I shave mainly with, 4 W.H. Morley & Sons , a J. Wiss & Son, a couple of 3 Henry Sears & Sons 1865's Queen's. and a couple of others (about 20 odd) that I rotate shaving with. I don't have the funds for Pumas, Aust's etc. As to the extra hollows back in the day maybe that's we see such "horror shows" on E-Bay?