Thread: Little help please

Ok so first I have now purchased 2 French 58 dubl Ducks the first was in rougher condition I figured no problem (YEAH RIGHT) I haven't been able to sharpen that razor to save my life well I saw another on eBay an said hey why not, better condition easier to work with (AGAIN YEAH RIGHT). So my first question is this does anyone else have a French 58 an notice any quality issues compared to other ducks?

Now I'm gonna be all over the place just a bit because of my next question. It is directed more towards our razor makers so I didn't know where exactly to post this thread. The question is this when you heat treat a razor does the spine on the toe end, end up harder due to it being at the end of the razor? I ask this because in all my honing I've noticed a lot that the spine on the toe end doesn't wear as quickly as the rest of the spine so you end up doing a little more work to set a full bevel because you have to get the toe to catch up weather that be with pressure where needed rolling X ect ect.

I'm not an expert, but I hone my own. The problem you describe, not as much wear on the spine at the toe end, sounds more like a pressure distribution issue. If one uses only one hand to hold the blade on the jimps near the heal, pressure may not distribute evenly across the spine / edge. A light second hand on the blade nearer the toe end may be required.

My two cents worth.

Yes I understand what you're saying that's why I do all the tricks I know of to fix the issue I've even gone as far as honing just the toe end to play catch up an it still seems as though the toe is harder than the rest of the spine I'm just talking steel wise. That is why I directed it towards the razor makers I figured they would have a little insight an say yes it happens or no you're crazy.

I have a French Duck and it's different because just about all of the Ducks were made in Germany with a smattering in France and the U.S. The French pieces I've seen were all from the earlier days. Most are marked Bresnick or Bresduck. Mine shaves great as the other Ducks do.

Both of mine are pearl duck the first one that was worse off I can't get to take an edge at all the new one is doing the same damn thing it's really f*@#ing irritating. Did you hone yours or send it out, because my issue is honing right now?

I purchased them for that reason I figured they'd shave well just like the others an it sucks not being able to use them.

Have you honed a similar grind before? If you're taking off more metal on the toe, compensate for it. Ink the bevel to be sure.

OK, just to get one of your questions out of the way... NO, the spine is not wearing unevenly due to it being harder towards the toe vs the heel. Unless the person who hardened the blade had a horrendously bad day, was drunk, was not paying attention AND was completely inept (all at the same time).... it's going to be the same hardness all along. No, I don't make razors or knives, but I've spent many an hour in a heat treating shop to know how it's done, and how to do it. I also made a living as a gunsmith some 30+ years ago, and I had to harden and temper many parts that I made for various firearms.

Now, on to the question of why you can't get an edge..... I did a quick search on google and it looks to me like your razor is about 5/8" and has a full hollow grind, possibly even a bellied hollow grind. If I am correct on how thin the blade is, it is likely that you are putting too much pressure or torque on the blade when you are honing it. Paper thin blades will flex with ease and when it flexes, you are not honing the edge anymore, but rather further up the bevel. I have a couple of razors like this, and after honing all my other razors, I find I'm too heavy handed.... and I end up with wide bevels and no edge. Just the weight of the razor on the hone is all it takes.

As for the spine wear being more prominent at the heel vs the toe, it's too much weight at the heel. The causes are many, one is to have the hone at a different height than your elbow when you hone. You're fore arm that holds the razor should be parallel to the surface your hone is on when honing. Having the hone too high generally causes excessive heel wear, and too low can cause excess toe wear. I have a hard time keeping the weight even across the blade so I use a finger on the toe when I hone... But... I tend to put too much pressure on the toe... I know I'm doing it, but I just can't seem to lighten up....<sigh>

Finally, rolling strokes should not normally be used on this shape of razor unless it has geometry problems such as a bad factory grind or a warped spine. Rolling strokes on such a razor can cause the heel and toe to wear more than the center portion of the razor, creating a smile that should not be there. Only razors with a curved (smiling) spine should have a smile in the edge and thus require a rolling stroke when honing. (I'll be the first to admit it's not a perfect world and I've seen a lot of razors with problems)


Regards

Christian

Awlright.... before you all start hollering at me.... yes, there are some straight spine razors that DO have a smiling edge (I have a couple of IXL framebacks, now that I think of it).

But.... *most* straight spine razors will have straight edges and I would not put a smile in a razor that does not come that way from the maker.


Regards

Kaptain "Why does there always have to be exceptions to the rules....."Zero

Yup, It’s technique, not the razor or heat treatment, that is honing the middle of the blade.

It is a common problem. A simple X stroke will distribute the pressure more evenly and hone the toe and heel.

If possible post a picture of the blades.

I've honed a few Ducks and they seemed fairly easy to hone (never honed your model). First thing I would do is check for a frown, if it's ok then it's technique and possibly over pressure or not enough rolling in the rolling x-stroke.

What hones are you using?