Thread: Mastro Livi response

I'll preface my comments with a few caveats ..

I've never owned a Livi razor. never seen a Livi in person and obviously never shaved with a Livi. Further, I have no dog in this fight!
I have friends that have owned Livi razors, now and in the past, and I trust their judgments implicitly. They are not new to the community or straight razors in general, but I will post my opinions only!

Personally, I do not believe that Signor Livi did himself any favors in his lengthy rebuttal. He singled out gentlemen that posted, IMO, valid criticisms. He did post photos of a razor that was obviously honed improperly, but after watching the video, I now understand why Mastro Livi does not recommend work on stones with his razors, but depends on pasted strops. There does not appear to be a completely straight or flat surface on the razor to hone off, because of the total use on the hands and eyes. Now, I'm the first to recognize a Craftsmen's skills, but what of the end user for maintenance?
Moreso, Mastro Livi expounded on the destruction of the razor's "geometry," yet, Livi grinds and grinds on the steel, and I never saw one single measuring tool in use. Unfortunately, the geometry he speaks of cannot be judged by eye, regardless on one's skill, as if it were an artistic impression. I was a metalworker my entire working life. As a Tool & Die Maker building and maintaining compound and progressive dies, our cutting medium was sheet metal rather than whiskers, so there are marked differences, but there are overlaps also, so I consider myself a bit more able to judge.
So, while I have a few Custom razors, I deal with people that work and think the way I do. With precision, mathematics and calculation. There nothing wrong with artistry, but the other considerations must be met first.
As far as the utility of the steel for it's intended purpose, I'm unfamiliar with the steel in question or it's heat treatment, but there is a good reason why our steel die sections were most often sent out for professional heat treatment. The process can be tricky, and without proper and specialized equipment, the chance of ruining an item that took many hours to produce is always a possibility.

I have nothing against Mastro Livi, the razors he produces or his customers that obviously love his work. Lets just say that a Livi razor is not my style, and even moreso after watching the video of Mastro Livi in action ... not only in the regrind of the razor in question, but also in naming and denigrating his customers, some of them long time customers....

It just left a bad taste in my mouth...

My $.02 only!!

Originally Posted by Druid

Personally, I do not believer that Signor Livi did himself any favors in his lengthy rebuttal. He singled out gentlemen that posted, IMO, valid criticisms. He did post photos of a razor that was obviously honed improperly, but after watching the video, I now understand why Mastro Livi does not recommend work on stones with his razors, but depends on pasted strops. There does not appear to be a completely straight or flat surface on the razor to hone off, because of the total use on the hands and eyes. Now, I'm the first to recognize a Craftsmen's skills, but what of the end user for maintenance?

They made their complaints public, so I still see nothing wrong with his publicly defending himself.

It is not correct "that Livi does not recommend work on stones with his razors." He does not recommend incorrect or excessive use of hones. That is not the same thing. Did you notice that he honed the razor after he re-ground it? You are just plain wrong on this.

Originally Posted by Druid

Moreso, Mastro Livi expounded on the destruction of the razor's "geometry," yet, Livi grinds and grinds on the steel, and I never saw one single measuring tool in use. Unfortunately, the geometry he speaks of cannot be judged by eye, regardless on one's skill, as if it were an artistic impression. I was a metalworker my entire working life. As a Tool & Die Maker building and maintaining compound and progressive dies, our cutting medium was sheet metal rather whiskers, so there are marked differences, but there are overlaps also, so I consider myself a bit more able to judge.
So, while I have a few Custom razors, I deal with people that work and think the way I do. With precision, mathematics and calculation. There nothing wrong with artistry, but the other considerations must be met first.

How does your experience as a metalworker have any bearing on whether or not you are "able to judge?" How many razors have you made? He's been doing it for what, 60 years? I'm pretty sure that his "total use on the hands and eyes" is quite capable of creating fantastic shavers without "mathematics and calculation" with more than enough "precision" for a razor. Respectfully, I am of the opinion that you cannot project your tool and die experience onto razor making.

Originally Posted by Druid

As far as the utility of the steel for it's intended purpose, I'm unfamiliar with the steel in question or it's heat treatment, but there is a good reason why our steel die sections were most often sent out for professional heat treatment. The process can be tricky, and without proper and specialized equipment, the chance of ruining an item that took many hours to produce is always a possibility.

Do you seriously believe that heat treatment requires "proper and specialized equipment?" All those vintage razors we play with, how many of them do you think were heat treated with such "proper and specialized equipment?" I'm pretty sure that Livi has the requisite equipment and experience.

Gents this is bumping up against our No Vendor Bashing policy

I am closing this temporarily for the whole Mod team to read through and see what they think

Thank you for understanding