Thread: Japanese Razor Talk!

I'll assume you're asking me without any quote.

First I do agree; these are cool little tools. I have a passion for hand forged tools, and am pleased to be able to support

My first reading as I recall was posts by thebigspender detailing one handed use.( I don'y know I've seen every discussion on kamisori) I thought ; cool: good thing I'm practicing- though at present all I can say is that I try it out on occasion. Since then I've watched a few barber shaves online and it still seems like similar contortions would be needed to keep only the ura on the face shaving someone else or yourself. The whys of difficulty is not the issue I'm curious about- The traditional Japanese "trades" I have researched seldom do anything because it is the easiest, quickest way. Everything is done for a reason, if it so happens to make it damn difficult to accomplish-

I'm just a noob with japanophile tendencies. The things I do know about I am willing to share freely, just as the info was given to me. I'd just like to know everything possible. It'd be cool to discuss the ins/outs reasons for western razor engineering as well

I get my tools from 4 sources: Hap, Sou, Hida, and Tomohito Iida. Tomohito has been my go-to guy for some time. He advised that the ura is the side used on the face. I have hardly shaved once with my razor(it's an old one, not Iwasaki or tosuke). I just haven't had time to sort it out amongst other honing issues i'm having

I agree, why are we even discussing this? To me its intuitive how to use the razor and needs no discussion. I didn't use the terms myth. I'm only responding to that. It just seems to me that when guys pay a lot of money to buy a japanese traditional Straight they want the whole experience otherwise why buy it? To try and turn it into a quasi western razor makes no sense to me.

Its like people who go "camping" to get the camping experience and take a motor home with all the conveniences of home. Nothing wrong with it but its not camping.

Even using the razor on both sides is an entirely different experience. The steel is very different.

As So explained to me it is the Japanese forging process that creates smaller crystals. With the smaller crystals you get a sharper cutting edge.

Caompare visiting Amsterdam: some tourists think the whole experience includes visiting a coffee shop for a spliff, others think you even need to visit a prostitute in the red light district. Most are happy with a visit of the old town centre.

Originally Posted by Kees

Even using the razor on both sides is an entirely different experience. The steel is very different.

As So explained to me it is the Japanese forging process that creates smaller crystals. With the smaller crystals you get a sharper cutting edge.

Japanese steel is also, generally, more pure than the western varieties.

As for smaller crystals, the metallurgical processes that create smaller crystals in the steel's microstructure can be used/manipulated with any steel. There are limits as to how fine the grains can get, though. If you make them too small, the steel becomes very difficult to heat treat correctly.

Surely, though, if any razorsmith is at the cutting edge of metallurgical knowledge and practice, it is Iwasaki san.

As much as I love those old geezers they, or is it only their merchants, still spread around a little bull... like reading japanwoodworker catalog where it says special forging technique produces denser steel.

It's a strain for me to argue the scientific side, being 1/2 purist and all. It's usually true: fully rigged up with all the technological goodies and the know how to use them a smith will get much closer to perfection more often than anyone eyeballing gas, or even more risky, charcoal.

But after 60 or 70 years of doing the same thing 6 days a week 12 hours a day and you have the passion to excel, you're expected to be pretty good at guessing what is going to happen next.


My metallurgical know how is really low, but essentially what they are doing is a kind of hillbilly normalizing.
They do all the major work as quick as they can at very high heat and then do their refining with multiple heats at much lower temps which serves the same purpose as normalizing which gets you to small grain.

or something like that

Originally Posted by kevint

They do all the major work as quick as they can at very high heat and then do their refining with multiple heats at much lower temps which serves the same purpose as normalizing which gets you to small grain.

or something like that

Yep, pretty much.

The alloying elements play a small role in grain size, but mostly it's grain refinement via thermal cycling that makes the biggest difference in the resulting edge quality.

But that's hard to explain, in precise detail, to the average person who only wants a good razor and doesn't necessarily need to know why it's better than other varieties. So it's not surprising that a bit of hype gets built up around these razors.

What's funny is that many Japanese bladesmiths seek out anchor chains from old English ships because the cast iron links are supposed to be purer than is commonly available nowadays. Other's take great pride in advertising that they work with Swedish steel because in Japan it is seen as somehow superior to their own varieties.

The grass is always greener on the other side.

Hi Russel,

Here is a fairly good discussion of the differences, whys of various soft backing used on Japanese tools: As far as I know there is only one factory in England that still produces the old style wrought iron, so the easiest way to get any is recycling

Japanese Woodworking Forums :: View topic - Kamaji and Watetsu

Originally Posted by Russel Baldridge

Other's take great pride in advertising that they work with Swedish steel because in Japan it is seen as somehow superior to their own varieties.

The grass is always greener on the other side.

I suspect it is not so much that the grass is greener, but that it is there.
The use and sale of tamahagane are regulated. Only real blacksmiths can actually buy it, and the oldest smiths get first pick.

On top of that, the available material is scarce enough that is is used mostly for swords / knives only, and really expensive. This is the reason that plane blades and razors made out of tamahagane are rare. And it probably won't be the best sword grade steel either.

Some Swedish white steel is so close to tamahagane that it's virtually identical (from an explanation on So's website) so that is why it is so popular with Japanese blacksmiths. they can actually buy the stuff, whereas tamahagane is loads more expensive, and not available in the quantities needed for chisels, plane blades etc.