Thread: Old steel

I think the older steels were inferior in some respects. I think the proof of that would be the Titanic. Of course that's structural steel but for razors it all depends on the type and where it was made. Of course a certain steel might maker a great superior razor but be inferior for other things or have other inferior qualities if you know what I mean, because I don't!

This brings to mind something I read in a book called "Hatcher's Notebook." Major General Julian Hatcher was in the ordinance dept for much of his career and wrote many articles in The American Rifleman.

Shortly after the '03 Springfield was adopted by the US Army it was found that some receivers were improperly heat treated at the Rock Island Arsenal leading to some failures and injuries.

It was finally found that because the smiths weren't using pyrometers but were judging the forging by eye the temperatures varied widely depending on whether it was sunny or overcast. So as good as some of those old blades are there is probably more variance with those than with the current production.

Interesting, JimmiHAD! By the way I remember seeing some Sheffield razors marked "Tempered By Fahrenheit's Thermometer" on the blade or spine. I own one dating back to William IV (1830-1837) so I guess this was a quite new process in that time but maybe a not so rare practice since then.

Thought that it was interresting that some one would mention the Titanic when talking about old steel.
I got to touch a piece of the steel when it was MS&T (UMR).

UMR professor and Titanic researcher dies - Missouri S&T News and Events

Makes you wonder if it would of survied if it had better steel.

Tim

Originally Posted by oldblades

Thought that it was interresting that some one would mention the Titanic when talking about old steel.
I got to touch a piece of the steel when it was MS&T (UMR).

UMR professor and Titanic researcher dies - Missouri S&T News and Events

Makes you wonder if it would of survied if it had better steel.

Tim

As I recall, the structural steel was fine and dandy, and never broke.
The manufacturer of the giant rivets, however, made them from the bottom of the furnace, and so there were large veins of slag running through them.... when she hit the iceberg, her panels flexed as they should have, but all the rivets broke.... which is a significant problem, in hindsight.

I think Zeepk is a similar story.

I have to believe that many old steel straights shave well when sharpened. The straight razor has been around a long time and used by millions and millions+ long before we got into it. They worked then and they work now.

I think the evolution has been to make a straight blade highly effective, yet require minimal effort to maintain it. Then there is the style, feel, and bells and whistles to choose from.

Pabster

I love old steel razors! I think it was a better product in many respects - within a certain timeframe, of course.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is how other people have treated the razor during it's life. If subjected to a certain amount of heat it could have lost it's tempering. That could be brought about by someone polishing it up on a fast spinning steel wheel, for instance. I've seen people using knives as tools in the flames of a fire, so even the less obvious things can't be ruled out, some of which won't leave much of a tell-tale trace after years of polishing or tarnishing.

Regards,
Neil.

Originally Posted by clavichord

Interesting, JimmiHAD! By the way I remember seeing some Sheffield razors marked "Tempered By Fahrenheit's Thermometer" on the blade or spine. I own one dating back to William IV (1830-1837) so I guess this was a quite new process in that time but maybe a not so rare practice since then.

It is interesting to me too. I find it a romantic notion (in a good way) that a smith could be expert enough to intuitively know when the steel was heated to the correct temperature by eye. I know that magnets can also contribute to the process but I think that is a small window IIRC.

Some of the old Sheffield wedges I have take a great edge and shave wonderfully smooth. So I imagine they got more blades right than wrong using the eyeball method and I bet it was a matter of pride for many of them where they didn't want to use the thermometer. Here is a timeline of the invention and development of the pyrometer. I couldn't find much on the history but it appears from what I did find that the early ones were rather primitive and probably not very useful for forging.

I was watching yet another show on the Samurai warriors that went into the forging of their swords. I don't know if they use pyrometers in modern times but certainly the antique swords were made without the pyrometer of thermometer technology and are said to be the pinnacle of the smith's art.