Thread: Why all the Mystery Steel???

All this steel talk is getting me pumped. I'm thinking I should run out to the steel store and get some of that wunderstahl and grind me a chain.

Well I'm shot, that used up almost a whole days worth of irreverence.

I am not trying to start any arguments here, and I certainly won't say anything negative about Mr.Harner, but saying that there is no difference between a forged blade and a blade made by stock removal is just ridiculous. Forging steel refines it's grain structure if done properly and the results are a stronger blade that will hold an edge longer. That is fact!

As for heat treating, yes, it is definitely the most important thing.

The main thing that I am going to have to wrap my head around is that staright razors are NOT hunting knives, camp knives, or pocket knives. They are staright razors.

I think some of you have misunderstood me about the steels, and you seem to be very sensitive about someone asking about a straight razors. I apologize for asking. As a new guy I didn't realize it was taboo to ask the question. I do not believe I ever stated that I had to have a razor with a certain kind of steel, I was just curious why most of them didn't list it.

I think it is a fair question to ask before spending $200-$800 per razor of my very hard earned money.

On another note, I did go ahead and buy a couple of razors last night, so I am getting rather excited awaiting their arrival.

Originally Posted by Tolly

On another note, I did go ahead and buy a couple of razors last night, so I am getting rather excited awaiting their arrival.

Don't say I didn't warn you about the RAD.

BTW, no one minds you asking any questions about anything .... OTOH, they will answer your questions with their point of view.

I like a forged blade myself just for the romance of the thing but in shaving and honing with blades made by either method I find I cannot tell the difference but I am certainly not an expert of qualified as a metallurgist.

Originally Posted by Tolly

I am not trying to start any arguments here, and I certainly won't say anything negative about Mr.Harner, but saying that there is no difference between a forged blade and a blade made by stock removal is just ridiculous. Forging steel refines it's grain structure if done properly and the results are a stronger blade that will hold an edge longer. That is fact!

You are just wrong here and that needs to be made known for the benefit of other members and to stop misinformation.

Read this article written by Kevin Cashen- being into knives you should know who he is: The lowdown on forging

Also, see this post that I posted a while back in response to a similar argument: http://straightrazorpalace.com/forge...tml#post292909

The link in that post (not working) is the link I posted above.

As per Kevin's article: it's all forged stuff in the beginning.

Originally Posted by Tolly

...but saying that there is no difference between a forged blade and a blade made by stock removal is just ridiculous. Forging steel refines it's grain structure if done properly and the results are a stronger blade that will hold an edge longer. That is fact!

It's not ridiculous. Forging to refine grain structure is a much more limited process than can be had in a heat treatment process. I can change the grain structure without ever striking the material (thermal cycling), and I'm a smith. Forging is not an absolute requirement. Even as I say that, I can think of some things that are better when forged, where there are corners and stress risers that can't be avoided in the end product and would cause real problems when heat treated. Then, you want forging. It depends on the purpose of the tool as to which methods will produce the best tool. If it helps you buy a blade, no problem with me, it's just that what you believe ain't necessarily so.

I think some of you have misunderstood me about the steels, and you seem to be very sensitive about someone asking about a straight razors. I apologize for asking. As a new guy I didn't realize it was taboo to ask the question. I do not believe I ever stated that I had to have a razor with a certain kind of steel, I was just curious why most of them didn't list it.

I think it is a fair question to ask before spending $200-$800 per razor of my very hard earned money.

In the old days the recipe for steel was proprietary and a marketing tool. I was trying to imply that market forces have changed since then and the customers are more demanding about knowing what steels are used. Maybe the best thing to say is that they are better educated about what they want or what they think is best. I think it's still the responsibility of the makes to develop better educated customers.

And, it is a fair question to ask when that much money is on the line. In the 1950-60 period, there were fewer knife makers and guys like Rudy Ruana and Scagel and Randall had customers that bought a knife to use. So there was a lot of feedback about performance and that drove the market for custom blades. It's merely different in the knife world today than it was then, more talk than action, where I would say the reverse is true amongst razorheads.

i dont know much about steel types but the new Hart razor stated there specs. here is what is said on classic shavings site about them.

• Each razor is made, from start to finish, by an individual craftsman. The initials on the tang are the maker's assurance of quality.
• All blades are made from new O-1 tool steel. There are no old forgings or “mystery metal”.
• All blades are surface ground before and after heat treating. These razors are guaranteed to be straight for ease of stropping and honing.
• All blades are heat treated in a molten salt bath. The salt protects the blades from decarberization and oxidation.
• All blades are frozen in liquid nitrogen. The deep freezing assures dimensional stability.
• All blades are triple tempered for a final hardness of 62 – 63 HRC.
• All blades are finish honed on a vintage Escher hone and hand stropped. Every blade is “shave ready” right out of the box.

or look for yourself here
Hart Steel 6/8 Quarter Ground Straight Razor

(i have never used or nor do i have any connection to the Hart razor company i am just using this as a example)