Thread: Real Damascus Steel ?

Originally Posted by sparq

Some good links to articles about Damascene steel (the real one, not the pattern welded look-alike) are on this page: Damascene Technique in Metal Working

It's a fair article with some errors, especially temperatures and the general understanding of how to make the base material steel. For the most part, it's not bad.

I think that a couple fellows would take exception to the idea that wootz cannot be manufactured any longer.

See here: The Key Role of Impurities in Ancient Damascus Steel Blades

A few of you lucky souls have razor blades made from Alfred's wootz.

Modern damascus is better referred to as pattern welded steel, but damascus, as a name, is common enough even though technically not the most correct term. Wootz, to me, is wootz, nothing else describes it better. But if someone says fulad or bulat, I'll keep up with them and won't blink.

Increasing the layer count of that material either requires cutting and restacking or bending and folding the billet followed by another welding cycle. Japanese techniques are similar but they are primarily cleaning the dross from a bloomed material and not attempting to increase any layer count.

Thanks to all my friend ..
these informations are very useful for me.

Regards.

I don't know about all the custom makers but Livi uses ingots of damasteel to make his razors.

I was curious after the last Damascus thread and the unsuccessful attempt to hone one up by a Keen - so I wrote to one of the US ebay sellers and asked if they'd guarantee that if I couldn't hone one up to shaving specs if he'd refund the cost. The reply was a resounding no. After that and after following a few Damascus threads, my opinion is that if it's not a Livi or some other maker that we're familiar with here, you take on an unacceptable risk of getting a blade you'll never be able to shave with. You'll get something pretty for a shelf but never be able to put it in into your rotation.

To be honest, I would also not refund a blade if the client couldn't hone it.
That's like asking if you can get a refund for a ferrari if you can't properly drive it (and have already done some questionable things with the transmission).

That is not to say that they eby store would sell you something useful. But even if they did, you bought it you keep it. The only thing that would work is if you can both agree on an impartial referee to judge the blade.

I saw this razor on ebay, bid $60 on it for a larf (figuring a damascus steel razor, even a cheap one would go for several hundred). Lost (went for $100ish). And promptly got a second chance offer to sell it to me for $60... so my guess is these are mass produced for well under $50.

It's a shame, they are nice looking razors, but I don't want a razor that is only pretty. I want one that is pretty and an excellent shaver. I guess I'm waiting until I'm rich and can drop close to $1000 on a custom one.

does not matter how much money you have to spend....you will never get a REAL damascus steel razor as the art of this died with the crusades........so i cant bring myself to pay 1000+ for a pattern welded blade no matter how good it looks....if you have to have a damascus steel blade save up for a very long time and try and purchase a sword that was made back then OF REAL DAMASCUS STEEL

My opinion of these two offerings is as follows:

If the photos are to be believed, the stuff is definitely pattern welded steel. Please note that popular term for pattern welded steel has been Damascus pattern welded steel (not to be confused with actual Damascus steel (aka wootz steel) which was originally created in Hydribad, India but shipped via Damascus (hence the name).

Now just being able to make pattern welded steel is not the big trick. There are three big "ifs" involved.

The first "if" is whether or not the steel used in the pattern welding is, of itself, of good quality.

The second big "if" is whether or not the pattern welding is properly done. If not, then although the steel is properly twisted and hammered, it will separate and split along the weld lines. Although such work might serve well enough for a knife, it is absolute crap for something like a straight razor which demands a smooth and enblemished edge.

The third big "if" is with regard to the final hardening and quenching after the pattern welding has been done.

Oh, by the way, that title on the blade "Damascus Steel - Jacobs USA" Looks like it has been added in using a photo retouching program like the Photoshop.

So, to sum up. Damascus pattern welding? Yup. Any good for shaving? Probably not worth a curse.

A lot of Damascus steels of various types are acid etched to produce the pattern and like the others say its an almost lost art.

I have seen and used kitchen knives as a professional Chef
those were the real deal with a real price tag as well!

In the german forums we discussed this razors. One member bought one and some of the best honemeisters tried to get it shave-ready. No chance. The steel or the heat treating is bull shit. Nobody knows it, even the sellers not.