Thread: Market Forces and Razor Prices

Originally Posted by mbaglio100

Oops. I'm almost sure you mis-read that: It most assuredly was $1.50, not $11.50:
1897 Sears Roebuck & Co. Catalogue - Google Books

If we assume the razor sold for the highest price then charged, it'd be $1.97, which is just under $60 US by today's standards:
Measuring Worth - Measures of worth, inflation rates, saving calculator, relative value, worth of a dollar, worth of a pound, purchasing power, gold prices, GDP, history of wages, average wage

This opens another conversation entirely, which is; why did "the best" of something that sold for the equivalent of $60 new in 1897 sell for only about 60% of what an average "good" razor sells for, new, today.

But if we go there, we're going to have to use phrases like "mass market" vs "niche market", and we'd end up high-jacking this thread. [1]

[1]...but that's never stopped us before...

The catalog listed others in the $2 range, but this one was indeed listed at $11.50. Of that I am sure.

I'd love to see an old catalog listing a seven day ivory scaled set.

Your link didn't work for me. Anyway, the catalog I saw was (I believe) from the 1870's, maybe 1880's and was from a cutlery specialist not Sears. I guess I should have saved a copy of it- didn't occur to me that I'd be citing it later!

My point is that when vintage razors sell for a fraction of their "replacement" value then they're presumably relatively fairly priced. Some have antique and collectible value, which is intangible and subject to the whims of the market and beyond the scope of my point. But, as likely the vast majority are bought to be used, although the prices are higher than they once were they still are a decent value relative to both their original cost as well as new razors by contemporary makers (assuming you don't mind taking some risk, as well as cleaning and honing them).

They're still sort of a "decent used car" price for a decent workhorse, and although some are paying crazy prices for 1955 Gullwings, that's not typical. Furthermore, they're paying for old and less comfortable (and less safe) auto technology whereas a razor is still a razor. Back when razors were really cheap (fewer were actually using them) gas was $1.50 per gallon. I guess razors have gone up by a similar multiple.

Most of them go for more than I'm willing to pay. And Ebay is a crapshoot. But the ones I've found in local junk stores are both in worse condition and even more overpriced! I think today's prices are more or less here to stay.

And yes, we could jaw about this all day! Psychology, market forces, and trends all are fascinating! I'm not trying to be "right" about anything, just sharing my own thoughts...

Originally Posted by HNSB

Or, (to put it in terms I can understand):

This thread has been a great read, lots of intelligent discussion!

Originally Posted by Alembic

Very cool. Are you and economist or an engineer maybe? I am an EE and looking at data like this is very helpful. It is not like we are going to change the laws of economics with it, and we probably won't change the price of a razor with it. It is just fun to understand what the heck is going on.

What HNSB posted is essentially what you learn in a general Microeconomics college level course. And he translated it to this situation perfectly. Most economics theories require closed systems with a lot of static variables, unfortunately the real world doesn't comply on that stuff, but, what HNSB posted is about as close as it gets to whats really going on.

Originally Posted by Rubicon

Another is that I think Ebay seriously distorts prices. Whereas in the old junk store days the seller could only get whatever an average Joe strolling in off the street was willing to pay, now on Ebay everyone in the world sees it and so the final sales price reflects what a single individual is willing to pay. That person may be a collector, or an idiot, or someone who is in an area where such things are scarce. No matter what, that buyer has personal, specific reasons for their top offer and for this reason Ebay shows only the extremes, not the average.

Definitely make some good points here. I don't really think E-bay distorts prices though - we are just seeing the shift in equilibrium price when an item is available to a global market / global demand curve.

For instance, locally, in my city of 20,000 people, the demand for straight razors is very small. The average person here would not pay $5.00 for any straight razor, because it is just a novelty piece to them. So, the demand curve is shifted far to the left, where 19,995 people wouldn't pay $5 for one, 3 people would pay $20 for one, and 2 people would pay $60.00 for one. For this reason, if a local antique shop has a razor for sale, and puts a price tag of $60.00 on it, it would eventually sell, but if they put $70.00 on it, it would never sell. That same razor, in a global market, might have an equilibrium price of $200.00.

Personally, I consider myself farther to the right than the equilibrium price on my local demand curve, but, on the global market demand curve, I am farther to the left of the equilibrium price. For this reason, I will buy very few razors on E-bay, and more razors locally.

Personally, I think that global market prices are higher than the majority of people on SRP think they are, and most members here are firmly planted left of the global demand curve equilibrium prices Because of this, SRP classifieds do commonly have "deals"

Originally Posted by Undream

This thread has been a great read, lots of intelligent discussion!




What HNSB posted is essentially what you learn in a general Microeconomics college level course. And he translated it to this situation perfectly. Most economics theories require closed systems with a lot of static variables, unfortunately the real world doesn't comply on that stuff, but, what HNSB posted is about as close as it gets to whats really going on.



Definitely make some good points here. I don't really think E-bay distorts prices though - we are just seeing the shift in equilibrium price when an item is available to a global market / global demand curve.

For instance, locally, in my city of 20,000 people, the demand for straight razors is very small. The average person here would not pay $5.00 for any straight razor, because it is just a novelty piece to them. So, the demand curve is shifted far to the left, where 19,995 people wouldn't pay $5 for one, 3 people would pay $20 for one, and 2 people would pay $60.00 for one. For this reason, if a local antique shop has a razor for sale, and puts a price tag of $60.00 on it, it would eventually sell, but if they put $70.00 on it, it would never sell. That same razor, in a global market, might have an equilibrium price of $200.00.

Personally, I consider myself farther to the right than the equilibrium price on my local demand curve, but, on the global market demand curve, I am farther to the left of the equilibrium price. For this reason, I will buy very few razors on E-bay, and more razors locally.

Personally, I think that global market prices are higher than the majority of people on SRP think they are, and most members here are firmly planted left of the global demand curve equilibrium prices Because of this, SRP classifieds do commonly have "deals"

So does all this mean that Market Forces are at play with razor prices? : )

Originally Posted by Undream

This thread has been a great read, lots of intelligent discussion!




What HNSB posted is essentially what you learn in a general Microeconomics college level course. And he translated it to this situation perfectly. Most economics theories require closed systems with a lot of static variables, unfortunately the real world doesn't comply on that stuff, but, what HNSB posted is about as close as it gets to whats really going on.



Definitely make some good points here. I don't really think E-bay distorts prices though - we are just seeing the shift in equilibrium price when an item is available to a global market / global demand curve.

For instance, locally, in my city of 20,000 people, the demand for straight razors is very small. The average person here would not pay $5.00 for any straight razor, because it is just a novelty piece to them. So, the demand curve is shifted far to the left, where 19,995 people wouldn't pay $5 for one, 3 people would pay $20 for one, and 2 people would pay $60.00 for one. For this reason, if a local antique shop has a razor for sale, and puts a price tag of $60.00 on it, it would eventually sell, but if they put $70.00 on it, it would never sell. That same razor, in a global market, might have an equilibrium price of $200.00.

Personally, I consider myself farther to the right than the equilibrium price on my local demand curve, but, on the global market demand curve, I am farther to the left of the equilibrium price. For this reason, I will buy very few razors on E-bay, and more razors locally.

Personally, I think that global market prices are higher than the majority of people on SRP think they are, and most members here are firmly planted left of the global demand curve equilibrium prices Because of this, SRP classifieds do commonly have "deals"

Superb points.

I'm a big fan of your work, btw! And I watched with interest your most recent auction.

You are right to say the SRP classifieds are where the most value is. There things have to be priced right because we are informed buyers.

I was in a junk store a few months ago, hunting deals. I found a few straight razors that were essentially junk. They were $75 each. When I asked why so much he said that they go for over $100 on Ebay. Broken, cracked, rusty toast. Unusable. They wouldn't, in reality, get a bid at $5 on Ebay. That's what I meant when I said Ebay distorts prices- it distorts local prices and glorifies junk, in my opinion. Now, thanks to Ebay, every local market is a global market.

Every coin dealer, antiques dealer, and art dealer I know pretty much says that if you want to get top dollar to put it on Ebay. Then they roll their eyes as if to say "idiots!".

Considering the global market is a great point. As an aside, a friend of mine is a car wholesaler. He says that whenever the dollar drops foreigners show up in droves to buy cars for export- blue book values stay the same but dollars get cheaper relative to euros, dinars, pesos, whatever. When that happens he can't keep up with their bids. I wonder if the dollar gets weaker if more europeans will show up and drive razor prices even higher.

Again, great thread! A fascinating subject because so many things are converging. Ultimately I think we're seeing the same inflation in razors as we are seeing with energy, food, tuition, you name it.

I know I haven't been around this scene a long time yet, but I'm a fast learner. I plea guilty to the Ebay-thing. I have bought a Dorko and a Dubl Duck at big prices, just because of what I had read here and on other international fora. (Yes, there are Russian, French and German equivalents of SRP) On the other hand I have been lucky on the spanish Ebay site buying two Filly's for about 70 and 50 dollars. Not too bad and also not NOS, but certainly good shavers. I even hold the Filly 8/8 Doble Temple at par with the Henckels #14 that I also picked up for a relative bargain of 65 dollars on a local Dutch auction site. It all depends what You are willing to pay for something that You want.
An item may be worth nothing to one, it may be worth the world to the collector. I don't consider myself a collector. I try different blades to see which one suits me best. When my evaluation is finished, I'll sell off the ones that I don't consider to be top-shavers. Market value is difficult to give when it comes to these items. Filly's and DD's and Dorko's are the hype. The impatient lot wants them (yes, me included. Guilty, as stated above), so prices go up. Still, a hype doesn't just arise by itself. Just like any legend has a bit of truth in it, it's the truth that most Filly's, DD's and Dorko's will give you a good shave. But... so will a jack-knife, an axe, a pair of scissors, a pocket knife and even a japanese sword if you care to check youtube. Anything made sharp to an edge will give a good shave, but not everything will *hold* and edge for long. I guess that's where quality kicks in. When something takes an edge easily and holds it properly, it will become popular. And look, those are exactly the brands that are popular. The circle is round.
:-)

I've been collecting razors for around two years now. I have to say that being patient and persistent is the way to go. I have a few razors and I keep records of them in my database. The average cost for my razors is around $24. Averages with large counts do wonders for averages. Some of the razors in the collection are not cheap by my standards. On those I dodn't have the patients to wait and probably would never have found them for a ridiculous price. Around 25% of my razors came from EBay while the remainder of my razors came from local sources. In round numbers all the EBay razors cost as much as all the local razors. Now it's harder to find good prices in the local shops and I don't know why?