Market Forces and Razor Prices

[Alembic]

I was replying this morning to a PM a dear friend of mine sent me regarding the straight razor prices on e-bay and how high they were getting.

I stated that we are merely witnessing free market economic forces - in this case simple supply and demand - playing out in a very short amount of time. We have a scarcity of a commodity and what is becoming a high demand for all things vintage straight razor related.

So many of us, including me, are kind of Johnny-Come-Lately to the world of straight razor shaving. There were many collectors taking advantage of $20 and $30 Dubl Duck and Filarmonica prices over the years and have many good ones in their collection. So what? That is great for them. They bought when nobody else wanted - that is extremely fair and should be the way it is. So those that complain need to relax a bit.

But we want to see this lost art flourish do we not? That means newcomers into the pool of buying razors. We talk up the of vintage steel and the newcomers want what is left of the supply - so now they have to pay free market prices dictated by supply and demand. And, because that is all that is left, they are willing to pay $300 for a Filarmonica DT13. People that only paid $30 would say "I would never pay that much". But what else is the newcomer to do? Their are 500 people who want one and only one available - and they have the $300 because they did not acquire 1,300 razors yet. So they buy and the price continues to rise.

Now, there are two thoughts I have. First, we would like to see companies like Dovo and Boker be able to continue to give us good value for our money and maybe even see some of the dead companies resurrect. I know I would. Second, a new $100 Dovo Special will be vintage in 25 years. And it's a damn good razor. So I continue to encourage beginners to go after the new ones as well.

The prices are what they are on vintage steel and it is as a result of what we want - more users to help existing companies stay in business and bring new ones into the market. JMHO.

Footnote - this exludes Krieger and Zeepk.

PS - My friend was not complaining - just commenting.

[Slartibartfast]

When I recommend a vintage razor to someone, I usually do not have the $200+ ducks, filarmonicas, etc...

I am usually thinking about the $30-$60 razors you see in the classifieds.

But yes, some razors have a mystical following now.

[holli4pirating]

I'm not so sure prices are as bad as you make them out to be. Filly's and Ducks are the exception, not the rule. It's actually interesting that you mention the Filly DT 13 as there is currently one in the classifieds for $200.

Another factor what I see as peoples' ignorance. When the Filly EPBD's and DT's were going for sky high prices, there was no reason to assume they were scarce. It was very clear to me, and probably others, that someone was sitting on boxes full of razors. Had people been patient instead of bidding all out on every razor, prices would not have been nearly as high. It was not a case of 500 people wanting one razor, but 500 impatien people who wanted A razor NOW.

And on that same note, the bargains are not usually on Ebay, and we on the forum say that all the time. If you want to buy right now and on the internet, the best places to do so are places like the SRP classifieds or reputable vendors. But if you are willing to put in some time, go to antique shops, flea markets, or estate sales. That is where the real bargains are.

All those collectors you speak of who paid low prices didn't have internet sources, or at least not to the extent we do now. They put in the time and effort to find what they wanted. It's people who are unwilling to do the same now that are really driving up the prices.

[Sailor]

You hit the nail with this. The prices has gone far beyond the reasonable but that is how the market works. You can still get vintage razors somewhat cheap, but usually at least some amount of experience on razors and knowledge how to restore them is necessary. Of course not all newcomers have these. Not all want to have it either.
If i were a newcomer i would look for the classifieds or then some brand new Dovo or Boker. Maybe that is the best value for money these days.

I look and sometimes buy various things from eBay, not only razors or stuff related to shaving. I think i haven't bought razor from eBay for over a year or more. It was about 2 years ago when it was obvious that the prices will get high. This has happened not only on razors but say vintage woodworking tools and several other items as well. I've seen cases where prices has come down also when hype goes over and finds the next victim.

I can understand that someone who collects stuff pays about 200 USD for Filarmonica razor or vintage wood plane etc, but as i am not a collector, such prices (imho) are against everything these old tools were made for: cheap and reliable tools of mass production for every man. Not shave or plane ready but something that you had to learn to prepare by yourself. I am sad if some straight razor brands become tools to lift personal status instead the tools for good shave.

The trick is not to buy things that others want. This doesn't help someone who wants just a certain razor but that is how it goes. Of course it is easy to understand how someone is desperate to get a Torrey or Thiers after reading our comments here, but my advise is to wait awhile or look another brand. Or look from the estate auctions or flea markets. Or from internet auction sites other than eBay or from other sites that are not English.
Last razors i bought were less known brands and all i can wonder how smooth shavers they became after little care.

[Alembic]

I'm not so sure prices are as bad as you make them out to be. Filly's and Ducks are the exception, not the rule. It's actually interesting that you mention the Filly DT 13 as there is currently one in the classifieds for $200.

Another factor what I see as peoples' ignorance. When the Filly EPBD's and DT's were going for sky high prices, there was no reason to assume they were scarce. It was very clear to me, and probably others, that someone was sitting on boxes full of razors. Had people been patient instead of bidding all out on every razor, prices would not have been nearly as high. It was not a case of 500 people wanting one razor, but 500 impatien people who wanted A razor NOW.

And on that same note, the bargains are not usually on Ebay, and we on the forum say that all the time. If you want to buy right now and on the internet, the best places to do so are places like the SRP classifieds or reputable vendors. But if you are willing to put in some time, go to antique shops, flea markets, or estate sales. That is where the real bargains are.

All those collectors you speak of who paid low prices didn't have internet sources, or at least not to the extent we do now. They put in the time and effort to find what they wanted. It's people who are unwilling to do the same now that are really driving up the prices.

You make some very good points, but two things.

First, it does not matter how a product becomes scarce - the fact is that it is, whether somebody is sitting on a box of them and is artificially creating a scarcity or if collectors have scarfed them up - scarce is scarce. And we here definitely help to create a demand by the mystical performance talk.

Second, the stock at antique shops and gun shows, which is where a lot of the past collectors that did not have the internet went to, are also drying up and the sellers are becoming savvy to the demand as well - that is their business. I can't even count how many antique stores I have gone to that "had" but "no longer have", and when they "have", the price is not much better than e-bay.

I'm not saying you can't find a bargain if you put in some time - I am explaining the reason for price increases. And, as certain razors dry up, of the pool that's left, there will be the next bit "it" razor until that one becomes unavailable or unaffordable. And so it will go so the current $20 razor will be $100. That is just the law of economics.

I know you are an experienced collector and purchaser and purchased or purchase wisely. There is much marketing psychology at work here - why else does somebody loose their mind at the end of an auction and bid an amount that only an hour earlier they swore they would never pay?

[Alembic]

Oh yeah - one more thing - I like to call this the Beanie Baby Affect.

I never said the price would remain high, just that it was and this is how it happened.

Beanie Babies are the perfect example of the scarcity artificially created by "retiring" a model to create scarcity. But eventually the demand dropped and the price became the real value of raw materials plus overhead plus profit margin.

[JimmyHAD]

I have collected straight razors on and off since the 1980s and have always been fascinated by the fact that they never seem to dry up. True there are certain models that are seemingly scarce, the dubl duck Lifetime (reaper) comes to mind, but the supply of good Solingen, Sheffield and Swedish razors seems to go on and on. As holli4 noted, aside from the usual suspects, the Fillys, Ducks, W&B 'for barbers use' meat choppers, there are still a plethora of good shavers out there to be had. Often at reasonable prices IME. Then as you noted there are the new razors by Dovo, Boker and others that are fine shavers still being made today. We're a lucky bunch AFAIC.

[Rmaldon240]

Another factor what I see as peoples' ignorance. When the Filly EPBD's and DT's were going for sky high prices, there was no reason to assume they were scarce. It was very clear to me, and probably others, that someone was sitting on boxes full of razors. Had people been patient instead of bidding all out on every razor, prices would not have been nearly as high. It was not a case of 500 people wanting one razor, but 500 impatien people who wanted A razor NOW.

.

I was thinking the same thing. People are paying the high prices because they want what they want and they want it now. In a world where you can buy just about anything, at anytime, by jumping on the computer some people can not deal with having to wait.

I am grateful that I found SRP before RAD hit and so I saved myself some bucks by waiting and buying stuff off the classifieds. My current fascination is with NOS and Kamisori type razors. So I wouldn't spend $300 on a Filly but I might spend $150 cause I have one, which I bought on the SRP classifieds, and I like it. And in today's market $150 would be considered a steal.

[holli4pirating]

You make some very good points, but two things.

First, it does not matter how a product becomes scarce - the fact is that it is, whether somebody is sitting on a box of them and is artificially creating a scarcity or if collectors have scarfed them up - scarce is scarce. And we here definitely help to create a demand by the mystical performance talk.

Second, the stock at antique shops and gun shows, which is where a lot of the past collectors that did not have the internet went to, are also drying up and the sellers are becoming savvy to the demand as well - that is their business. I can't even count how many antique stores I have gone to that "had" but "no longer have", and when they "have", the price is not much better than e-bay.

I'm not saying you can't find a bargain if you put in some time - I am explaining the reason for price increases. And, as certain razors dry up, of the pool that's left, there will be the next bit "it" razor until that one becomes unavailable or unaffordable. And so it will go so the current $20 razor will be $100. That is just the law of economics.

I know you are an experienced collector and purchaser and purchased or purchase wisely. There is much marketing psychology at work here - why else does somebody loose their mind at the end of an auction and bid an amount that only an hour earlier they swore they would never pay?

Perhaps we disagree on what scarce means. I don't think 1 or 2 per week on ebay is scarce. I'd actually bet that Filly's were more available when the prices were nuts than they were when the prices were low.

Yes, antique store stock is lower than it used to be, but I do not think it's gone. I actually think Ebay is largely responsible for the stock disappearing. A lot of people who may have taken razors to antique shops are going to ebay instead, because there are more buyers and more impatient buyers on ebay. And antique shops themselves are also turning to ebay for the same reasons. Not to mention a lot of people who don't know anything about straight razors think their poor condition razors are worth big bucks because they "saw it on ebay."

And that "saw it on ebay" is the same thing that drives up prices. People have seen Filly's selling for hundreds so now that is what they are "worth."

If you believe in supply and demand, than regardless of the differences we may see in supply, we believe the same thing about demand. Ultimately, it is the demand buyers have for razors and their willingness to pay the massively inflated prices that keeps straights expensive. You may not assign as much of the "blame" to the buyers as I do, but I don't think you can escape laying at least half the "blame" for high prices on the buyers. After all, they are half of the "supply and demand" chain.

[HNSB]

I think the demand curve has shifted more than the supply curve. Versus a few years ago, razors are more scarce relative to the demand, not relative to the supply.

But... "Scarce", IMO, refers to the moment and circumstances of the transaction. If you've been crawling around the Sahara for four days with no water, and I show up with a full canteen, I possess a scarce resource which you'd pay dearly for even though four days prior you wouldn't have paid more than a few dollars for it.

I think part of the confusion generated by prices of some particular razors is that they are "Veblen goods", where the price increases because the item is perceived to be more valuable as the price goes up.