Thread: Extra Hollow Full Hollow and tough beards

Gibbs, do you believe that because someone posted on the Internet that he cut himself as a cosequence of using a full hollow razor as opposed to, say, a quarter hollow that it's factual? Sure, you remember reading it and the person that posted it probably believes it, but does that make it true? My personal experience is that the grind of the blade (excluding the shape of the point) has nothing to do with whether I cut myself or not. In fact, I find the theory that it does to be preposterous.

Perhaps I don't have a sufficiently wiry or heavy beard to experience the difference, but I get equally good results from several grinds. The subjective aspects are far from identical, but the quality of the shave is comparable. Predicting the effectiveness of a razor based on someone's self analysis of their beard is risky business anyway. My definition of wiry or coarse might overlap someone else's definition of average. Am I average plus?...wiry minus?...it's not an exact science, which is why YMMV.

I remember the first time I read on the forum about a member feeling a full hollow flexing on his face when he shaved with it. Next time I shaved with one I noticed it too. Not with all but with some. There is no doubt in my mind that we all don't have the same density or thickness of whiskers. Being a pro tattooer for a couple of decades I know we don't have the same skin.

That said, if you aren't a barber shaving many different people how do you know if your beard is tough or not ? Compared to what ? I used to think mine was but reading descriptions of other members and their shaves has me convinced mine couldn't be. I can get bbs in two passes every time and one pass sometimes. I've never shaved anyone else's whiskers so cannot compare.

Now as far as grind, most pro barbers I've known, and that is one hell of a lot of them, used full hollow ground razors most of the time. They encountered every whisker type there is day after day. This would lead me to believe that a well honed quality full hollow will shave any beard type as well as any other grind ..... YMMV

"Am I average plus?...wiry minus?...it's not an exact science, which is why YMMV." How true Bill.
I never said that I believed the gentleman, nor did I question him about it. He was a seasoned shaver, some 10 years IIRC, so it was not some newbie just getting a bad cut on a razor. He had been at this a very long time. He felt, objectively, that because the way the razor flexed, it gave way to "his" cut on his beard. I don't what kind of whiskers I have for sure. I don't have a whisker-meter doo-hicky that can tell me I have a light, normal, or heavy beard. And I can honestly say I have had good shaves from very stiff near 1/4 wedge Ramapo Co (circa 1854 with a smile) to thinner Wade & Butcher Extra Hollow Ground and a lot in-between, mostly thin though. Good shaves all around. I shaved tonight with a Wade & Butcher Extra Hollow Ground, and tried out a J.A. Henckels Full Hollow, along with one I wanted to see how it came along for honing, a Peter Hennes Haan-Solingen. Man is it nice .. and sharp! Looks like a full hollow. Second pass with my DOVO 6/8 full hollow.

My point is, there must be a reason that they made Extra Hollow Ground and even declare it as such: Thiers-Issard and DOVO do in their Extra Hollow "Singing" razors, though the DOVO beat the TI in that regards I've been told. Given that all that matters is the edge, then why the extra bother and the resulting rejection of failed attempts of Extra Hollow if 1/4 or 1/2 will do? Was there a comfort feeling on these grinds that differs? I know.. YMMV. LOL But really, in the industry there is always seemingly the reference to the grind. If it matters not, then why even mention it?

Originally Posted by Gibbs

If it matters not, then why even mention it?

Singing razor ? Maybe it is the birds chirping that I hear from my tinnitus but I haven't heard a razor "sing" yet. They call them Silver Steel, Manganese Steel, Super Keen Cutting Steel, Pumamaster Steel, and God only knows what all, to get people to buy them. Same reason they produce different grinds and mention it.

As Robert Doyle said in "Collecting Straight Razors" 1980, "By 1870 the full hollow blade took over the market. The large wedge blade was losing popularity and was doomed in 1880 with the invention of machine forging." If it wasn't for the resurgence of popularity in straight razor shaving by a niche market the few heavier grind razors available probably wouldn't exist. IMHO.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Singing razor ? Maybe it is the birds chirping that I hear from my tinnitus but I haven't heard a razor "sing" yet. They call them Silver Steel, Manganese Steel, Super Keen Cutting Steel, Pumamaster Steel, and God only knows what all, to get people to buy them....

You forgot Kayser Ellison Best Sheffield Silver Steel, I know, I got one, a Hammond Extra with jimps top and bottom 5/8 Full Hollow and magnetic to boot, LOL.
It may be that the extra hollow are a real treat to shave with, but the Full Hollows have cut many a whisker. The "Singing" razor is supposed to give a slight ring to the vibration of the blade. DOVO's Prima Klang is German for "First or (primary) Note/Sound. You would think there would be some logic to having such an extreme ground, an Extra Hollow Grind, or else the word would be out and no one would pay much attention to Prima Klangs or the Thiers-Issard Carbonsong C135 Extra Hollow razors, or any other Extra Hollow ground razor.

Not to belabor the point but .... in the 1980s I used to collect straight razors. I went to many, many barber shops and asked the then old barbers if they had any old razors they wanted to sell. I went to shops all over north jersey. Newark, Patterson, Belleville, Kearny .... on and on. Those old guys favored full hollow dubl ducks, FWE Specials and Leaders, and other full hollow razors. I don't surmise this, I asked and they told me. They had been professionals for 40 or 50 years back when they frequently gave every Tom, Dick and Harry shaves. They probably didn't analyze the relationship between edge, grind and whisker much more than using what worked best for them day after day, year after year.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Singing razor ? Maybe it is the birds chirping that I hear from my tinnitus but I haven't heard a razor "sing" yet. They call them Silver Steel, Manganese Steel, Super Keen Cutting Steel, Pumamaster Steel, and God only knows what all, to get people to buy them. Same reason they produce different grinds and mention it.

As Robert Doyle said in "Collecting Straight Razors" 1980, "By 1870 the full hollow blade took over the market. The large wedge blade was losing popularity and was doomed in 1880 with the invention of machine forging." If it wasn't for the resurgence of popularity in straight razor shaving by a niche market the few heavier grind razors available probably wouldn't exist. IMHO.

I think this is a case of something that's not going to stop until someone agrees with him- I have many razors,different grinds but all have good edges and they shave well,the rest is called preference and also marketing,I cant sell you the same thing ad-infinitum,I have to have a "New and Improved grind,steel,or some other angle" The best answer has already been given-YMMV. Anything else is pointless as just look at how many different blades are out there and we all have our favorites,and some of them come from the same manufacturer of a blade we don't like,but since we don't know that our favorite brand made them we think there different. Also I didn't name anyone as HIM so if you think its you....it might be.
PS- Ive also never heard a razor singing either,and I been using a straight since I'm 17,and I'm now 56,you do the math

I am bald on the head, but facing a strong and thick beard growth. But this is no match for my Prima Klang.

And I guess other straight razors will do the job as well.

I have an extra hollow/heavier grind{not heavy just heavier) that shaves very well.Whatever the grind epiphet(hollow/half hollow) there are different grind weights,nothing is simple,it might even be art making razors.I know most people use the description extra hollow to mean razors like Dovo Prima Klang/Otto Bush/Dubl duck etc very thin blades.TI doesnt seem to follow the cliche/description.
Sorry if ive gone off the plot

Achieving an extra hollow grind on a razor requires considerable skill and experience. The so called "singing" grind on the TI razors I have seen is far cry from what I consider extra hollow.

I believe dovo discontinued the Prima Klang. It was probably not very cost effective for them to produce, and I would I imagine craftsmen who can perform this kind of grind can be counted on one hand.

There is a reason why most artisan custom razors have heavier grinds.