Thread: Tamahagane nihon kamisori

Originally Posted by etorix

i wonder if the other tamahagane kamisori makers are also

Probably. Or they have very good connections. Either way what they do is legal or they wouldn't be doing it in public.

Originally Posted by etorix

they are described as tamahagane tho, i think id like to catch one

Tamahagane was the only way to produce decent steel until they started importing it. At that time there were more people making more tamahagane. So if it is 17th century, it would have been made during a time of strong Japanese isolationism and not be made from imported steel.

Originally Posted by Bruno

Afaik they didn't ban swords, but the public wearing of swords. I would doubt many fmaily swords were turned into something else. Reusing the steel is usually only done with broken swords.

Yes, your right!
The ban was for wearing them in public.
I tried to find out more and to find the picture I saw but all I could find was there seem to have been a confused time in Japan, I clearly remember them collecting swords on the picture and stacking them up but don't really know why.
I do know some Japanese I've talked to told me their familys hid their swords, so looks like it was tougher than just o ban to carry them in public.
Maybe we got someone who know what was going on?

Not sure which time period is being discussed here, the wearing of swords was banned during the Meiji era, but hundreds of years earlier more than one ruler instigated some kind of sword hunt whereby they tried to take away swords from all of the civilians, something like that anyway. I'm sure someone knows more precisely

Originally Posted by mainaman

Here are a few reasons for not making tamahagane razors anymore.

Right now tamahagane is not of the same quality as it used to be, and so it is not suitable for razor.
Most of the current production goes for swerds and rest for knives. Apparently it is illegal to use Tamahagane for anything that is not a sword in Japan now, so even knives made from it are shaped like sword/tanto etc.

I have been a student of the Japanese sword for over 30 years now and this is the first I've heard of tamahaganae being illegal for any other usage.
There are restrictive laws on ownership of Swords and other traditional edged weapons(and even some Iaito(practice swords)) but this only applies to the weapon once it is made up.

There are also Japanese tamahagane kitchen knives for sale at The House of Knives in Mt Eden,Auckland,New Zealand.
Carbatec in East Tamaki,Auckland also advertise a tamahagane sledge hammer(last price of around $NZ300).

Originally Posted by jadekayak

I have been a student of the Japanese sword for over 30 years now and this is the first I've heard of tamahaganae being illegal for any other usage.
There are restrictive laws on ownership of Swords and other traditional edged weapons(and even some Iaito(practice swords)) but this only applies to the weapon once it is made up.

There are also Japanese tamahagane kitchen knives for sale at The House of Knives in Mt Eden,Auckland,New Zealand.
Carbatec in East Tamaki,Auckland also advertise a tamahagane sledge hammer(last price of around $NZ300).

Me too, but that comes from a guy that has deep connections in the tool/knife /sword making circles in Japan. He personally knows Iwasaki as friends and does business with him on a regular basis. According to him these are the facts, it could be possible this is some fairly new thing too. You will not be able to find a kitchen knife made from tamahagane in Japan, you may be able to find tanto/wakizashi etc sword type of knife but not kitchen or other tools, except vintage old stock.

Originally Posted by Lemur

Yes, your right!
The ban was for wearing them in public.
I tried to find out more and to find the picture I saw but all I could find was there seem to have been a confused time in Japan, I clearly remember them collecting swords on the picture and stacking them up but don't really know why.
I do know some Japanese I've talked to told me their familys hid their swords, so looks like it was tougher than just o ban to carry them in public.
Maybe we got someone who know what was going on?

The ban on wearing swords was during the Meji Restoration in the 1860s.This was aimed purely at the Samurai class as the ban was wearing the paired swords and the katana & Tachi by itself.

Previously other classes were banned from wearing paired swords(Katana/Tachi & wakisashi).This was to protect the STATUS of the Samurai and it was used as a "badge of rank"-paired swords automatically meant Samurai or criminal.
It was far less common to see Tachi paired with another sword but happened occasionally.


John

Originally Posted by mainaman

Me too

Hey,thats great-what style.

I only got taught Seitei Kata(before they added the extra 3 kata)but got taught a bit of Kenjutsu as well.

Currant MA teacher also teacher a system of Korean influence simmilar to Kage ryu.


Cheers John

Originally Posted by jadekayak

Hey,thats great-what style.

I only got taught Seitei Kata(before they added the extra 3 kata)but got taught a bit of Kenjutsu as well.

Currant MA teacher also teacher a system of Korean influence simmilar to Kage ryu.


Cheers John

Ahh I see my mistake, I did not mean I am a student in swordsmithing, just that the Tamahagane law thing was new to me too.
Sorry fort he confusion.

Um, fellows... tamahagane, sushi knife, sushimen, sushi cutting knives, deba, kazari, yasi, japenese, japanese, master, chef, yanagi, tachi, case, cutlery, martin yan, yan can cook, knife, lifetime warranty, sale, lowest price, set, serrated, bread, ironwood handle

and... The Japanese Knife Company - KNIVES - LAMINATED STEEL - TAMAHAGANE

If this is an example of the kind of steel you speak of, then we need to review a common problem that has been discussed here as to labels that appear on razors. It's a marketing thing, not the steel.

If Iwasaki or others have been licensed swordsmiths there is no question in my mind about the legitimacy of their access to tamahagane. I would not question metallurgical researchers or even well respected good friends of swordsmiths or the master smelter himself Kihara-san. I have samples from both kinds of friend. There really should be an unusual or uncommon reason for that steel being distributed outside the very well controlled chain. This does not mean that lesser quality product from the tatara could not be available. I cannot imagine that the "good stuff" would be lost somewhere.

This does not mean that a toolsmith is prevented from building his own smelter and rightfully making his own steel. That material would also be tamahagane and would not be controlled through the present set of regulations. It would not be official, but if of good quality, it would be respected for what it was rather than looked upon as automatically inferior because of it's manufacturer.

Yan can cook is a great show