Thread: How sharp is sharp enough? What let's you know when a refresh or honing is needed?

Originally Posted by earcutter

That's funny. It wasn't until I started to listen to what others said that I started to really get things working. Took me a while to actually start listening vs taking in what I wanted and ignoring everything else lol. It's all a package really.

I do the same thing. When I don't agree with what someone recommends I ignore it. For some reason I ignore what the people with 20 years experience advise. It's like I think I know better than they do. I know I don't but I act like it sometimes. One day I'll wise up.

Originally Posted by Jack0458

I don't think I've asked one question and someone said "whatever he says" and I had my answer.

Nailed it! Ask a question and you will get many different answers based on people's experience and perception. Which is a great thing if you are willing to explore all the different options, opinions, and answers. One way to narrow the field is to get a mentor. I found someone with experience that I trusted wasn't out to sell me something and then worked with him and just a couple others mainly through PM's although I still ask a question on the boards when I am looking for a range of answers. Both ways have their benefit. The fun is in the journey. Best of luck.

Jack, it is really not that complicated… we on this forum do tend to make it sound more complex than it is, because half of us are hooked and after the perfect edge and shave… chasing a ghost.

But getting a good shave is not that hard, depending on the razor, the driver’s skills, and the equipment, (hones and strops).

Some photos of your razor may help and more information on how the razors were honed.

Sounds to me like you edge may be breaking down or as said it could be a stropping issue. It can take some time to learn to strop properly as one miss-stroke can wipe an edge.

The benefit of Straight Razor shaving is the ability to tailor a razor’s edge to your face and beard. Once there, it can easily be maintained for a very long time with a minimum of cost and effort.

Find a local mentor and cut your learning curve with some hands on coaching, it may be something very simple.

Agree with Euclid 440.
Would be helpful to see your razor and know what you are honing with.

I agree with Glen - Its ultimately down to how the blade shaves.

If it pulls, is uncomfortable or scratchy, or doesnt remove hair properly then you need a touch up.

IME if its slighly uncomfortable I find a finisher is enough to bring it back. If its pulling as well, then I'll do 8k and the finisher, and if its not removing hair properly then I'll go down to 4k, then 8k and then finisher.

I too gave up on the HHT as its so variable. Off my honing I pass HHT about 60% of the time, my dad passes every time and mate of mine couldnt get it to pass at all. One razor, three results, but the shave was great we all agreed hehe

All of the tests you hear about (HHT, shaving arm hair, TPT, TNT and so on..) are only really useful when honing to check how an edge is progressing. Once you've been through the honing process the only thing that matters is the shave.

For me I do the TNT to check how a bevel is forming, then see if I can shave arm hair off the 1k. Off the 4k I should be able to start popping arm hair holding the razor about 1mm above the skin, off the 8k I should be able to easily pop arm hair above the skin and then I'm just adding smoothness with either SG 16k or SS12k plus a natural finisher.

Once it gets to the shave test though, its all the steps I first mentioned.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Here is a picture of my razor (one I use most). It is a Boker a friend gave me with no handle. I made a handle from G-10 (blue/black layers). I have one more razor. Also the stones I use for razors (and knives). Shapton glass stones. I keep them flat, lapping them whenever needed. The strop is a rich man's strop from whippeddog.com. The poly-webbing has .5 micron CBN spray on it right now. I have some .5 micron chromium oxide paste ordered.







While I need lots of improvement I can say I see an improvement in my honing and especially my stropping ability. I can get the edge to cut hanging hairs now. But, after one shave they won't cut a hair. Not even once. So I was wondering at what point WHEN TESTING would it be time to do more than strop with the leather? When should I use the poly-webbing strop? When do I need to go all the way back to stones? Since I can't shave often enough to test my edges by just shaving I've been doing the HHT to see the condition of the edge from heel to toe. From your comments it seems a razor can still give a good shave even when it won't cut a hanging hair. After my razor will cut hanging hairs and I shave once it won't cut a hair. Then after I strop on leather it still won't cut a hair. But if I go back to the webbing (with .5 micron CBN) I can once again cut hanging hairs. So, to get good shaves do I need to go to the webbing for 20 or so passes then the leather or just use the leather? This is the type of thing I was wondering. I'm still doing the HHT because I don't trust my stropping. I have tested the edge by cutting arm hair above the skin. Has anyone else ever cut off all their arm hair or am I the only one? Once I trust my stropping I'll be able to strop then shave without testing I hope. I've been working on honing and stropping for a few months and just now am I able to get the razor to cut hanging hairs. This is a pretty important milestone in the learning curve I think. So I still enjoy the sight of a hair being cut. The thing about a razor NOT cutting a hanging hair is I don't know how sharp it is. I get knives to shave arm hair to the skin in one pass but they won't cut a hair above the skin. And a razor needs to be sharper than I get knives. Unless I'm wrong (usually am) I'm getting the edge pretty good and it will improve over time due to more experience. I'll still be asking questions though. You guys on this forum have helped me more than I'll ever know. I appreciate that. Now shaving (the reason for it all ) is the thing I need to improve on. I will. I'm not giving up. There is no way everyone who uses a straight razor would have gone through the learning curve unless there was a pot of gold somewhere. I'm sure there have been lots of people who had to learn without any help. They had it much harder. I've pictured the cowboys like in the movies who rode for days or weeks and then showing up in a barbershop somewhere for a shave. Of course in the movies a man in a barber's chair with a face full of lather and a sheet over him usually resulted in someone getting shot. Maybe too many Clint Eastwood movies???

Originally Posted by Jack0458

There is no way everyone who uses a straight razor would have gone through the learning curve unless there was a pot of gold somewhere.

The Journey is the "Pot Of Gold" all the little successes along the way...

How sharp is sharp enough... The standard that I would have to use would be: my Feather Straight razor with a ProGuard blade.
Have used feathers and Kai's other blades and have to say that the ProGuard is sharp enough for me[emoji33]

Jack, are you using magnification to look at the bevel and edge?

Your razor has a bit of a smiling edge which makes it more difficult for a novice razor honer to obtain an even sharp edge.

A better test than hair, (which does not work for everyone), is to look at the edge with magnification. Any shiny spots are where the bevels are not meeting, if you are lucky a large amount of polishing on finer stones may bring them together, but not completely from heel to toe.

Knife sharpening and razor honing are two different skill sets. While some of the tools are similar the goals are very different.

First, set the bevel… Do not move on to the next polishing stone until you are absolutely sure the bevel is completely set from heel to toe.

Then each progressive stone, removes the previous stone’s stria without damaging the edge.
With a smiling edge, some body English is required, there are many posts and videos on how to accomplish this.

I suspect you are very close to a good shaving edge, but have not completely set the bevel, and stropping is bringing the edge together in some places, not completely.

Here is a video on visually inspect the edge to ensure the bevel is set.

Here

.

Originally Posted by Jack0458

After my razor will cut hanging hairs and I shave once it won't cut a hair. Then after I strop on leather it still won't cut a hair.

It sounds to me like you are shaving with too high of an angle.

Another thing it could be is the razor. Does this happen on more than one razor? I had a razor that behaved that way while all of my other razors did not. I finally determined that the bevel angle on that one razor was too acute, ~15 degrees, for the steel/temper of that razor. I have since reduced the bevel angle to 17 degrees and now the razor holds its edge. I have other razors with bevel angles ~15 degrees that hold up fine. Changing the bevel angle is a pretty major honing mod and I'm not suggesting that you do it, just bringing it up as a possible cause. If this is happening with other razors, it is extremely unlikely that this is the problem.