Thread: How sharp is sharp enough? What let's you know when a refresh or honing is needed?

Originally Posted by bluesman7

It sounds to me like you are shaving with too high of an angle.

Another thing it could be is the razor. Does this happen on more than one razor? I had a razor that behaved that way while all of my other razors did not. I finally determined that the bevel angle on that one razor was too acute, ~15 degrees, for the steel/temper of that razor. I have since reduced the bevel angle to 17 degrees and now the razor holds its edge. I have other razors with bevel angles ~15 degrees that hold up fine. Changing the bevel angle is a pretty major honing mod and I'm not suggesting that you do it, just bringing it up as a possible cause. If this is happening with other razors, it is extremely unlikely that this is the problem.

When you say "shave with too high of an angle" do you mean the angle of the razor on my skin or the bevels? I've read several statements that already have me thinking I'm keeping the angle too high. Spine too far from my skin.

Then you talk about bevels. Isn't the only way to lower the bevel (edge) angle is to remove steel from the spine? Or if you wanted to raise the angle of the edge would you need to apply tape or something to the spine then re-set the bevels? Please explain this. I come from a knife sharpening mindset and re-profiling knife edges to higher or lower angles I'm very familiar with. How to do it on a razor though I need instruction. It's about impossible to mess a knife up beyond repair. But it might be easy to screw a razor up beyond repair. Removing too much steel from one side of the spine for example. The far end of this action would be a razor edge that looked like a wood chisel.

Originally Posted by Jack0458

When you say "shave with too high of an angle" do you mean the angle of the razor on my skin or the bevels? I've read several statements that already have me thinking I'm keeping the angle too high. Spine too far from my skin.
The correct angle sees the spine close to the skin as opposed to "far' from the skin.

Then you talk about bevels. Isn't the only way to lower the bevel (edge) angle is to remove steel from the spine?
First establish what the angle is. There is a thread about this some where on SRP with a formula. Personally I've never bothered. AFAIC razors have a use by date but I would bet yours is not the case.

It's about impossible to mess a knife up beyond repair. But it might be easy to screw a razor up beyond repair. Removing too much steel from one side of the spine for example. The far end of this action would be a razor edge that looked like a wood chisel.

Razors with a wood chisel profile shave really well. Don't do it to a western razor tho .

Originally Posted by Jack0458

When you say "shave with too high of an angle" do you mean the angle of the razor on my skin or the bevels? I've read several statements that already have me thinking I'm keeping the angle too high. Spine too far from my skin..

Yes, shaving with too high of an angle would have the spine too far from your skin. If you are having trouble with more than one razor it points to shaving technique, not a problem with the razor geometry.

A year in...1. Get your 1st razor honed by a pro. You will end up with more than one believe me. At least you will have a reference point. When you begin decide whether you wish to learn to hone/sharpen your own razor/s. If yes, if you buy a new razor, although they may be less than shave ready, an 8K stone is all you need for a hone. Most who have half a dozen razors of different types manage with 3 hones, bevel setter (1K) 8K and maybe a higher grit finisher such as a 12 K, but one razor, just use the 8K. Importantly, this forum is a font of knowledge. Everything I have picked up that has been 'right' and 'effective' has come from this site. All the guys will help you. If you are close to an experienced member, I'm sure he'd help you. Some things are a personal choice like 'tape' and 'slurry', none is totally wrong or right, that's the beauty of this hobby. It requires skill with brain and hand. Use the brains on SRP as a library, you will pick up bits you like or not, but moderators/mentors here...if they don't know, no one will lol. Enjoy your evolving hobby, it's great. Also buy yourself a Styptic pencil.....you will need it.....lol

Bobski

I have a vintage 1930's or 40's henckel #17 that is such a phenomenal shaver but what sets it appart may really be the steel. This also a factor and why some razors retain their edge longer.

Just as an example, I alwasy hone a bunch of razors at the same time since I already have my hones out... Last time I honed I honed a Puma, a Thiers Issard and another Henckel all from around the 60's-70's at the same time as the vintage henckel 17. I used them in a rotation and after a few shaves the only one which is still very much shave ready is the vintage henckels, all the others have degraded into not giving the most comfortable shave anymore.

Originally Posted by samircanada

I have a vintage 1930's or 40's henckel #17 that is such a phenomenal shaver but what sets it appart may really be the steel. This also a factor and why some razors retain their edge longer.

Just as an example, I alwasy hone a bunch of razors at the same time since I already have my hones out... Last time I honed I honed a Puma, a Thiers Issard and another Henckel all from around the 60's-70's at the same time as the vintage henckel 17. I used them in a rotation and after a few shaves the only one which is still very much shave ready is the vintage henckels, all the others have degraded into not giving the most comfortable shave anymore.

Totally agree with you re the steel. I have a vintage 651 dorko and a MoDoSo, which of the nine razors I own are my best and have the best longevity. Of the nine, 4 are vintage and five new. I like the Dovo's 'Prima Klang' 5/8, and the Dovo Bismarck 6/8, but as you correctly say, the steel way back then seems to have more tenacity than some of todays steel. The Henckel sounds like a lovely blade, good on you.
Bobski

Originally Posted by samircanada

I have a vintage 1930's or 40's henckel #17 that is such a phenomenal shaver but what sets it appart may really be the steel. This also a factor and why some razors retain their edge longer.

Just as an example, I alwasy hone a bunch of razors at the same time since I already have my hones out... Last time I honed I honed a Puma, a Thiers Issard and another Henckel all from around the 60's-70's at the same time as the vintage henckel 17. I used them in a rotation and after a few shaves the only one which is still very much shave ready is the vintage henckels, all the others have degraded into not giving the most comfortable shave anymore.

Something wrong with this picture if a TI or Puma of that vintage didn't hold an edge for a few shaves.

Originally Posted by onimaru55

Something wrong with this picture if a TI or Puma of that vintage didn't hold an edge for a few shaves.

No no amigo, nothing wrong as they all had the same number of shaves (say 7-10 shaves or so) and they are at the stage where they would need a refresh with 10k hone and/or CrOx where as the vintage henckels actually probably had 4-5 more shaves and still it's not even at the stage where I wouldnt want to do a CrOx paste yet.

Also, I am middle eastern and I probably could light a match on my face.

I agree. If you have to go to the stones after 10 shaves… something is wrong.

How were they honed? How were they maintained?

The problem is novice shavers will read your post and think this is normal… it I not… something is wrong.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

I agree. If you have to go to the stones after 10 shaves… something is wrong.

How were they honed? How were they maintained?

The problem is novice shavers will read your post and think this is normal… it I not… something is wrong.

I'm a novice shaver. Is the following true? I may need to use a stone (I have 8k and 16k) after 10 shaves if my stropping skill is not as good as it will be in the future. As my stropping skill improves I'll need to use the stones less often. Does this sound accurate?