Thread: New guy here..

Been lurking and learning for awhile, first time post with a couple of questions. I read that the best method to avoid burn is long gentle strokes, but I find I need several strokes to get it tight. Around my chin the hairs are like steel cables and I have YET to get it as close as I would like there. I'm getting better under the nose -- I recently picked up a Dovo 2/8 from classicshaving and it is great for the tight areas! Around the chin I find myself having to be a contortionist with my pulling hand over my turned head and then taking multiple firm strokes asong the jawbone by my chin to get close enough and invariably end up with burn. Sometimes to the point of drawing blood. I know my razors are sharp enough (I think they are) and I am lathering like crazy. It just seems the hairs don't get soft enough around the chin. I haven't reached for a bic or a machIII to touch up in quite awhile, and I am VERY happy with the results everywhere except the chin. Are there any more tricks I should try? I've gotten the shave down to 20 min or so, and I bet 12-15 of those minutes are around the chin. Thanks to those who have created this place and to all whose advice has been invaluable thus far.

Welcome to the group and congratulations on your success so far!

Now tell us about your razors. Are they new? Have they been honed or just stropped?
Ebay specials? Give us some details on the razors and your prep. Then we have a basis for discussion.

Hope this helps,

Thanks for the reply Randy. I guess a few more details would be in order. I have only 3 razors that I currently use. A TI 7/8 "singer" with the barber's notch, fileworked spine and ironwood handles, a Dovo "best quality" whatever that means, 5/8 white plastic handles, and the Dovo 2/8 I mentioned above. I use a Japanese water stone 8000 grit that I raise a slurry on with the slurry stone it came with. A cake of the "house brand" sandalwood soap from classicshaving.com, a hanging leather Jemico strop (no paste) that was around $50 and says "RUSSIAN" on it, and a Vulfix Super Badger brush. I was starting to doubt my honing and stropping abilities and was having an interesting time under the nose with the wide blades, so I ordered the 2/8. Shave-ready supposedly, and it cuts no easier than my others. Thus, I guess they are all sufficiently sharp. I run a sinkful of hot tapwater, with a washrag soaking in it, strop all three razors for a few strokes each, then ring out the washrag and try to soften my face a bit. I've tried shaving right out of the shower, but it didn't make much difference. Then I dip my brush in the sink, give it a bit of a shake, and go round and round my soap bowl. I lather normally one half of my face first, shave it, then the other. Next I lather and shave my upper lip and around the corners of the mouth. Lastly I do the chin area, often re-lathering. For the last pass in each area, I normally dip a couple of fingers into the now warm water in the sink and wet the area. I use the same water to keep rinsing my razors and to re-wet the brush occasionally. Even on my cheeks, it takes easily 5-6 passes over one area to get baby's butt smooth, and even more so on my chin area. I have noticed that increasing the angle on the flat parts of my face shaves much closer, but it's a bit tricky to try a steeper angle on the chin. I'm open to suggestions. Maybe I'm not swirling the brush long enough on my face? Maybe a different soap? I've tried Williams cake, various can type shaing creams, but this is my first cake of the "good stuff". I also have a cake of Taylors of Old Bond Street lavender but am waiting until the classicshaving stuff is gone. Even that "tough beard" gel type Edge doesn't help.

Thanks for the info! Now we have a starting point. New razors are seldom shave ready. They usually require some time on a hone. An 8000 Japanese stone is ok. It just cuts slower than a Norton stone. It does sound like you need some more laps on the hone for each of the razors.
Try 20-30 laps (roundtrips) on the 8000 stone, wet, but with no slurry from a Nagura stone.
Then strop on your plain leather strop for 30-50 laps. If you notice an improvement but it still does not suit you then drop down to 10-20 laps on the 8000, 30-50 laps on the strop and test shave after each session on the hone. Do this three times and you will develop a feel for the rate of change that a given number of laps makes with your razor.

Make sure you use a light pressure with the razor when shaving and be sure to stretch the skin.
If you are using the Williams soap try adding just one drop of mineral oil to the cake. Then work it up with your brush. Remember that it takes a week or two for the skin on your face to adjust to shaving with a straight razor. If its really sore than give your face a rest for a couple of days.

I assume that you are paying attention to the angle of the razor on your face. It should be approx 30 degrees or two spine blade widths away from your skin.

I hope that others will jump in here and add their comments.

Hope this helps,

I've been reading about this Chinese 1200+ grit stone and am thinking about picking one up to finish with after the 8000. Maybe you're right and they aren't sharp enough. I tried the hanging hair test last night and none of them would plink it off with nothing more than the pressure of the hair itself. The second test where you try to shave your arm at 1/4 inch above the skin worked with all three. The TI singer even sang as it popped hairs off. I will try what you say though, and forego the nagura slurry. Maybe I'm not stropping enough either. I try to stick to 30 degrees and keep the skin tight, but for the last pass or two I increase that angle somewhat. It seems to shave closer and still doesn't burn except for the chin area. I had the shave bug since around '97 and go for months at a time with it, but events in my life invariably put it on the back burner now and then. We are settled into our new house now, and I caught the bug again a couple weeks ago. If I can get over this chin hump I hope to make it a permanent part of my daily routine whenever time allows. I've been a fan of all things sharp since I was a kid and have quite a sizeable knife collection. It's only natural that I'm drawn to straight razors. You say to use a light pressure, but if so it doesn't cut. They must not be sharp enough so I'll focus on that now. Do you recommend the Chinese stone? I'd really rather do this with stones than pastes. I guess it's my knife nut pride. THanks again for the recommendations. That was my reply above, just forgot to log in ops:

I have just been reading about your tribulations in shaving. I sometimes think that when people begin shaving with a straight they go hog wild and buy the best of everything they can find and expect to get a close comfortable shave from the get go and that just doesn't happen. The old shaving manuals as I recall say it takes at least 6 months to become proficient and from personal experience I have to agree.

From what you say it seems your razors are quality and are at least sharp enough to do a reasonable job shaving, of course they can always be improved upon but I think the most important factor is experience. The more you shave you'll just notice that it comes easier, the burn decreases and the shaves get closer and as your confidence increases it gets easier to do all the little maneuvers it takes to shave proficiently.

Its like driving a car with a stick shift over time the shifts become smoother until it all becomes second nature and thats how shaving becomes over time. So just hang in there until that proficiency developes and before you know it you'll be giving people advice here on shaving.

Back in the late '90s I dabbled in a side business as a knife dealer. I had wholesale access to many things sharp, and that's when I became interested in straight razors. I did as much research as I could back then, bought a couple of cheapies in antique shops, and gave 'er hell. A few razors I could get to shave decently, and more I could not seem to bring back. I became bored for awhile, and when the interest came back I decided to buy a "GOOD" razor and see if it helped. That was the TI, followed soon thereafter by the Dovo. It did make a difference, but I knew it could be better. Then came the water stone to go with my strop instead of the plethora of diamond bench stones in my garage. Better. The water stone has put a mirror edge on a few show knives over the years, so it was a dual purpose purchase. As I stated above, I've been doing this for 8 years, off and on, and I feel my technique is about as good as it's going to get without outside advice. I'd estimate probably 500 shaves or so, maybe more, and I'm pretty comfortable. I just can't seem to get my friggin chin tight enough without rash/burn. I will continue and hopefully it will get better. I try taking more time and being gentle around the chin, but gentle doesn't seem to shave, and taking more time results in more passes ~ more burn. Don't get me wrong, I know I'm in effect a novice, and that's why I decided to get involved with the board. I had a chat with a local barber this morning. I don't usually go to barbers as my wife cuts my hair, but I dropped by to see if he does straight shaves. Nope. He's afraid of all the bugs flying around the world these days. He's 75 and has been running his shop in the same spot for 49 years. Cool old dude too. He told me that he shaves with a straight and seemed to remember that he forgot to shave this morning, so he offered to go though his routine right there for my benefit. I appreciated the effort but didn't walk away with much new knowledge. He first lathered his carbon stone with his mug and brush, gave the razor a few quick strokes, then "floppy stropped" it. I mean he didn't have the strop taut at all. I asked him about that and he said it didn't matter. He put a hot towel on his face for a few, lathered his face and neck, then went to town. Never stretched any skin. All one handed, like he was standing in the shower with a mach 3. Almost as fast too. Downward to the jawline up top, upward to the jawline underneath. Done. He then proceeded to put Jeris Hair Tonic on his face.:roll: I asked him about closeness and pulling the skin tight, and his response was that's too close. If you rub down and it feels smooth, that's close enough. "If that's not close enough for her, find another girl." Funny old dude too. He said to bring my razor by sometime and shave there, he'd watch and offer advice. Not too sure I'll take him up on that, but I'll likely drop by to have a cup of coffee with him from time to time. Well enough rambling for now. I'm gonna try and not let my interest wane this time. Leaving the bic in the drawer too. I'll get this chin thing down eventually. Thanks again guys. Good replies

WOW! Thanks for sharing that. It's just these kind of stories that I love. So much detail, I can almost feel the atmosphere in the barber shop from here. And I just love hearing all the contradictions to the "accepted" practice. It just reinforces that this is a highly personal activity and while there's a lot that we can learn from each other about technical details, there's just as much to be gained from the poetic account.

X

All of my razors pass the hanging hair test. I will not shave with them until they do.

Have you been using that waterstone for your knives? If so then be sure and lap that stone flat before using a razor on it. If the stone is not dead flat then your honing will suffer greatly. keep the hone flat and clean. It will make a world of difference.

The 8000 grit hone should be all you need for your razor and for the hanging hair test. The 12000 Chinese stone is simply a luxury. But it is an affordable luxury!

You will find however that a paddle strop pasted with 0.5 micron chrome oxide or diamond will make your razor smoother and sharper. Sorry, the stones are simply not that fine.

My sincerest guess is that your stone is not flat.

Hope this helps,

Update: 8000 stone is flat and clean. Gave the Dovo 30 round trips on the stone yesterday then 50 round trips on the strop. Not much improvement, but some improvement nonetheless. Same story this morning with the TI resulted in a little more improvement. Possibly different steels...? Haven't honed the small Dovo yet. Haven't tried the hanging hair again either. Maybe I'm doing it wrong...just grab one of my wife's hairs from her hairbrush, hold it between thumb and forefinger, and try to cut it 1/2" from my fingers? No more resistance than the flex of 1/2" of hair will provide? I may give a paddle strop & paste a shot. I assume buying a new one and dedicating it for the paste is the way to go. Maybe one with leather on both sides and do a .5 and a .25? The advice is helping though. Still had a helluva time with the chin the past couple of days, but the overall shave was smoother for sure, especially this morning with the TI.