Thread: Holding an edge...

Originally Posted by threeputt

ATS34 isn't a CPM steel. CPM means Crucible Particle Metalurgy, and it is a process through which CPM steels are made, thus the nomenclature.

Actually ATS34 is a CPM.
ATS 34 started out as '154-CM' (i.e. cruciable metalurgy-> which changed to crucible particle metalurgy), but was not made in the sizes and volumes many knife makers needed so it was difficult to obtain and work with. Enter Hitachi Steel, with its "ATS-34", which is 154-CM.

Gonna toss my hat in this ring and let you folks know that I've heard back from the tungsten people. They say that the metal will indeed probably be too brittle (props to Tony for calling this first). There were ideas tossed around for Talonite, but I did some research and found that doesn't hold up very well and the Cobalt makes it very expensive. I've contacted a custom knife maker that works with CPMs to see if he can't make us some razors out of CPM-10V I haven't heard back from him, but I informed him that we'd probably want 100 for an initial run.

I have knives made of ATS34 as well as 154CM, and as far as I can tell they are almost identical, although I prefer 154CM if possible, only because it is made in the United States, unlike ATS34.
Both are good steels, IMHO, my bias notwithstanding.
I HOPE they wouldn't cut slices off of my razors, which I think is just as much about hardness of temper as it is about the steel;anyway...who would do such a thing....?
John P

I've given up worrying about how many shaves I get just stropping, because I'm not planning to do much real honning, and it seems to work. As soon as I feel the slightest discomfort in a razor, I'll touch it up a bit on a pasted strop. If I'm shaving it'll get just a few swipes on a Swaty. That does keep the razor from deteriorating, and it does lat a long time. i seem to be able to keep it at that optimum level if I don't allow real deterioration.

Am I just spreading out my honing? I don't care. I just know that I'll get the best shave out of a razor every time. Why settle for anything less? I really see no disadvantage doing it that way.

It might just be that if you do minute honing on an ongoing basis you might never need real honing. It might be an interesting experiment to see whether, over a long time, you remove the same amount of material from a razor with touchups as you do with periodic honing.

I usually find that if I catch the blade just as it starts to get uncomfortable I'm able to do about 20 passes on the yellow corticule and about 10 minutes on the 12,000 and its as good as new. I rarely use the 4K on my working razors. This afternoon I honed up SRP 38 and my other TI from the Grand experiment and I had to do some 4K honing because they had been really taken down. Normally I wouldn't let them get to that state in my normal rotation. I have a Dorko 6/8s that is a superb shaver, wicked sharp but gives an uncomfortable shave. A few strokes on the yellow corticule and 10 minutes on the 12,000 and it shaves like a dream.

I think the key here is keep up with the maintainance. I don't doubt that if you use the pasted strop at the first sign of degredation you probably would never need a hone at all.

I saw a post by someone saying they have a TI damascus that only lasted 6 shaves? Thats incredible, I have one and once I got it properly honed I've probably gone 15 shaves and it still shaves as good as when I honed it. As a matter of fact its when I used it I realized it was time for the fat lady to sing on the Grand Experiment!

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

I usually find that if I catch the blade just as it starts to get uncomfortable I'm able to do about 20 passes on the yellow corticule and about 10 minutes on the 12,000 and its as good as new.

To me that's really honing. When I talk about refreshing a razor, I mean 3-5 swipes on a Swaty and back to the strop. That's the way my old time barber used to do it.

It might be my sensitive skin, but I'm not comfortable (shaving) letting a razor go until it needs that much work.

Providing an update to my update. I heard back from the knife maker and he said CPM-10V would not be optimal because it has poor corrosion resistance. He suggested that if we want to try a newer material to go with S90V. To quote Doug, "It is extremely hard and edge retension is increadible, it is also nearly corrosion proof. Down side is that it is very spendy to get and the only one I know who will heat treat it charges $25 per blade." Quite frankly the $25 per blade seems like small potatoes if we do this on a case by case basis. I'm trying to get more details from this fellow and I will let you know if he is interested in trying to do this. Since he does custom work only, these would probably be closer to Maestro Livi's prices if you wanted to go forward with these.

Originally Posted by Kelly

Enter Hitachi Steel, with its "ATS-34", which is 154-CM.

The steel I am referring to is CPM154, not 154CM. Two different animals. CPM154 is a new steel from Crucible in Texas. That's the steel Darrel will be using. Ultra pure, powdered steel with a very small grain size. Not cheap either, but in an application such as this it shouldn't be too bad. It should make for an incredible razor blade, performance wise. I think the trick will be to get the HT just right so it will be soft enough to respond to our stone and strop methods and not be brittle, while still taking AND HOLDING a very very sharp edge. We'll see how it turns out.... ..........Jeff

Hi Guys, Gals,

I have finally started making Razors. SO far I have found the cpm154 to be very nice for this application. I will be making some really cool razor blades soon.
All suggestions that I can possibly do I will try.
Let me here them.
CPM10v would make a nice razor as would s90v.
The problem is the vanadium would not strop well.
It glazes so easy.
Diamond paste might work.
I have some carbon material that I think you all may like.

[QUOTE=Ruckeriii]

Originally Posted by superfly

I wish I can try the razors made by Maestro with ATS-34 steel, which is CPM steel, to see if the advatage of "modern steels" well utilised, and is good for straigt razors. Acording to Lynn, it is...softer...

I used my INOX Damascus blade from the Maestro for about a month (25 - 30 shaves) and I only honed it becase I chiped the blade somehow. I make the first pass across the grain and do not feal a thing!

Mason

ATS-34 isn't CPM steel. CPM154CM, which has almost the same formulation is. ATS-34 is a trade name for a steel made by Hitachi. It was originally called 154CM in the states, but the U.S. mills quit making it for quite a while, and Hitachi took up the slack. CPM154CM is also what I make my knives out of.