Thread: Str8-Edge Shaving & Follicle Bump Woes

That's very good advice on the homemade flattening, Kees. Thanks. Yeah, I recalled that the last few days. I'm not much for hardware/tools. Don't have a shop and don't pretend to be a handy man. I'll put a feeler out to men with more utilitarian value then myself. The Mexicano 4k is truly disgusting. In the beginning the surface was smooth and could use it as the intermediate to bring a few razors up to 8k, but now when I've tried back-honing (stropping motions) the grittiness of the lodged swarf is quite disgusting. If I have to take a micro-tweezer and pull them out every time I want to make a shave-ready straight then I'm out. The good news is the Spyderco medium ceramic whetstone is capable of serving in that capacity. I experimented with two incarnations of the "Kansas City Special" (why is it called Kansas, from the "Kansas City Grinding Company" if it is made from a company based in Maryland?) and achieved a satisfactory ATG shave on one of the sideburns and a smooth pseudo-ATG along the left jaw (heavily bearded portion of my face).

It had been so long since I'd gotten the TM paddle strops I mistakenly thought I'd gotten the 30k (diamond) paste. I used the green pasted paddle for the first time two days ago to finish and it has a little 0.5 engraved at the bottom. That Miller guy is quality.

I understand, from reading before '08, that the Wapis are comparatively softer razors, which is why they are very good entry level self-honing razors for pseudo-newbs like myself. (and oh-so-smooth..) I certainly don't mind a slow going finishing hone. Diligently inspecting with the 60x-100x microscope it is an impressive mirror polish achieved on the Spyderco Ultra unfine hone. Shaved off that alone.

Though the "Master" (pakistani) and "Krystal" (Chinese) razors are total crap, mundane 440ish stainless (cutlery grade!) steels I thought they would make great practicing razors.. but the steel is so soft they don't give genuine feedback on something as fine a hone as the ultra-fine. Now I've run some hard steels over it (the two eBetrays considered unacceptable for shaving use) it has been smoothed out. I did an Ivory hand soap/faucet wash of the swarf and then experimented with using the whetstone wet, with some soap just like in one of those Rupkalvis youtube videos. Nice. I've given a very nice polish, and used back-honing after the tight circles to reduce any vestige of a burr/wire-edge (if that's possible). I'm making it work.

Experimenting with several levels of honing with the Kansas 9/16 wedge, I'm also learning about newbie's problems with shaves. Very insightful way of peering into the world of straight-razor shaving... very educational. Yes. With the right circumstances and self-empowered explorations it is possible to learn in a practical, personal way many of the things we encounter in the realm of this microscopic keratin cleaving.

The great news is my skin is so tough and smooth at this point that I could repeatedly scrape a barely shave-worthy razor over the thickly bearded parts of my face with practically ZERO irritation/burn! The pink only lasted a few minutes and my face was in very fine shape 24 hours later (the concern being long-term post-shave complications from bumps which is a finer determinant of discerning whether the shave went too far:

Originally Posted by niftyshaving

I have always been of the opinion that a bad
shave today was in fact a bad shave yesterday
and that any evaluation of a change needs to run about
three days...

Success. My face is in much better condition, shaving-wise, than every before. I have some thoughts on this but don't have the time to post. Must address these contemplations later...

Uhhhh.. I should say, while shaving in two stages (two levels of honing) on the razor from two days ago I did one side at one level of sharpness, then the other at the official "finished" stage. The first, less fine side also appeared to still have a double bevel on part of the edge (monitored on the microscope). I gave my face a full two days for the first half (unfinished) razor shave. I can see these spots, rather large, look like pimples. But they aren't. Far less on the finished side of my face. Also, I guess I wasn't entirely accurate because my face has suffered somewhat, complexion-wise if not burn-wise, from the inferior razor edge. All experiments and learning (on purpose, actually).

Just now completed a fantastic shave with a finished edge (spyderco ultra fine), the Chas M. Beach 6/8 square-tip. Finished it last night, actually. It has a wide, shallow chip in the middle and had to be honed in two distinct areas, the long shallow chip appears to be at the "tipping point" where I had to apply slight pressure (or adjust the subtle emphasis with the grip on the shank) while honing to achieve the proper gradations of fineness and final polishing along the entire blade's edge. It's okay, I'm not working on complete edge restoration. It's all a learning process, the blade functions awesomely! Very sharp, snipes off all the little straggly hairs around the mouth, good ATG action on the sideburns. Very nice cutting in the heavier bearded areas flirting with full on ATG. Fast and smooth. I finished this with a mild hand soap whetted approach on the finishing hone. It seems to work quite well, actually. Just takes a long time, with less viable surface area to work with that I can completely trust it takes some time outs for de-swarfing.

Hooray! I'm officially awesome. I had to do intense honing and shaving experimentation to really get it to sink in and learns the subtle differences. I feel I am ideally situated at this point to understand a lot of the trials and tribulations of what goes on in a shave-oriented community like this.

Time for the aftershave balm's cool, refreshing scent. A suitable accompaniment to the harsh winter chill!

So the honing with microscopic verification of various levels of shave readiness has been very insightful and I can make a fast, smooth cutting razor (with much care). Just have a hard time with changing edge geometry/edge-restoration/major-chip-healing due to the ridiculous lapping antics involved when using Nortons at the beginning stage.. now I have a question about skin toughness/conditioning:

I know about loading the brush up (have badger will lather) and gradually adding some water (or knowing how much if well acquainted with the soap) to a soaked and squeeze dried brush.. I also don't think I'll ever depend on pre-shave oils with something as slickable as good soaps. Watching some of the youtube videos showed me something..

Traditional barber shaves demonstrated by obviously young barbers who have occasionally included a step after the lathering where they work the lather into the face with their fingers, then wipe slick digits off and re-lather and shave the subject. I've learned from using the harder to slicken soap, Williams in my case, taking the previous failure into account where I didn't have the glide but at the end of the shave, cleaning up on the 3rd or 4th pass (with a DE back in the early days with J.B. Williams) I had all the incredible slickness when brushing on pure water with the boar brush. Then it dawned on me to work it in with my fingers and even apply water directly with hands as the shaving soap "pre-shave" application to get the awesome slickness possible with this modest (i.e. cheap!) shave setup. All the slickness, lather on top to prevent early drying and good shaving.

Which leads to the skin conditioning/toughness question: if I use this triple-milled animal-fat based soap, which obviously makes the shaved skin very soft, would that set someone with my skin type back a few steps? Or is it a temporary softness? Because I like the idea of baby butt smooth, but I hate the idea of having baby butt softness/sensitivity. I want strong, resilient, tough-yet-smooth skin, which the magic of consistent straight razor shaving has given me.

Oh, and I finally learned about what the Pinaud "Clubman" talc is actually for now. I used to be a cashier occasionally selling that stuff and thought it was for diaper rash or something, that the Pinaud company had diversified with its skin products to other things or that talc had a secondary use for something "masculine" in nature. I learned from looking for pine scented shaving soaps and ran into the talc at QED's USA on-line store. So, there's a solution to becoming The Shiny One!

You can understand that now that I have experienced the miraculous transformation of the rough/sensitive skin-type into clear, smooth complexion that I don't want to lose it! Especially now that I can hone and maintain the razors...

Originally Posted by AxelH

Which leads to the skin conditioning/toughness question: if I use this triple-milled animal-fat based soap, which obviously makes the shaved skin very soft, would that set someone with my skin type back a few steps? Or is it a temporary softness? Because I like the idea of baby butt smooth, but I hate the idea of having baby butt softness/sensitivity. I want strong, resilient, tough-yet-smooth skin, which the magic of consistent straight razor shaving has given me.

I don't think so but you'll have to try yourself.

Yeah, I thought that would be the attitude.

I was looking through the B&B website and it's just so sad what that community looks like, from vociferous posters, especially the newbies. There is so much attention paid to brand name products, shave bowls to brushes to DEs and the DE blades. What's really irritating is a poster mentioning only the brand name of their brush, for example. And I don't know whether it's a badger or a boar.. stupid beginner's stuff like lathering problems. And of course the type of hair is going to be a major factor in their problems. This place is much higher quality, fo' sho'! Some of the most trivial questions/problems presented over and over again, in the very tutorial thread where instructions and photos are provided! And the obsession with different DE blades.. pathetic. I got a Weishi, a non-aggressive DE shaver.. and had no problems with any of the cheapo blades. The aggressiveness seems to ultimately be determined far more by the direction of cutting relative to the growth and the non-razor holding stretching of the other hand, pressure and, yes, even angle (which is subtly adjustable). It's just so sad. Which is partly why I don't even bother to get an account there and ask questions. This place seem much higher in knowledgeability and refreshingly non-retarded.

Skin's looking really good and I'm getting back to work on the Kansas City 9/16ths square-tip wedge. I've re-flattened the Norton's as best I can, combination using the convex side of the sillycon lapping stone with various oddball directions and sacrificing the extra-fine DMT 6"x2" tablet to them as a final lapper to ensure they're as flat as possible to re-bevel the razor. I think I'm at the 5-7 reworked edge on this thing. It's hard steel and I'm monitoring with the microscope so I've just now made almost all the little chips disappear. Only one slightly troubled area remains. After spending about six hours refining my honing technique and watching the edge carefully under magnification I can say honestly that the edge's geometry is subtly warped, which was why I had to use different techniques to bring the full length to a mirror polish. Thankfully the medium and fine Spyderco hones are truly flat and allow for accurate feedback and diagnosis. Six hours. It's okay because I'm accruing knowledge and sharpening my skillz. Frustrating and hard work. Complicated by not knowing for sure if the Norton's are flat enough, whether it's the blade or the hone.. I lost several centimeters of diamond surface at either end of the DMT tablet. It's okay, I hardly use it for my cutlery anyway (brought my six inch Wustof chef knife up to the fine side of my India stone and then simply swiped the edge about fifteen times on an extra-fine diamond honing rod and couldn't safely cut through tomato skin along the entire length..).

Sacrificing the extra fine DMT tablet isn't fun. It was flawed for something as sensitive as a straight razor, however, and I have the other honing stones in case I want to bring the cutlery to a screamin' sharp edge. Yes.. coarse or extra coarse (or extra extra coarse) DMT diamond tablets are the only acceptable lappers but I have limited income and was never happy with the flawed DMT tablet (everything sharpening related that is on sale must be tragically flawed/defective from my experience..). Now the middle part is visually less diamond encrusted. It won't be useful much longer. I should have only used it on the first Norton (220/1000).

Finally brought the 9/16ths Kansas wedge up to an acceptable length of true flatness. Still some upswing at the tip but it is very minor and I managed to make a shaving edge (arm hair test only..) to the tip. Almost all of it's edge is highly polished. My first vintage acquisition, the Krank 4/8th square tip full hollow, has been honed to shave-ready but has an even longer angled upswing (probably from honing on slightly dipped Nortons before I attempted to really flatten them) than the Kansas, I just shaved with it and the tip is actually good enough for the ear-most part of the sideburns on an ATG pass without undue irritation. Fast, comfortable shave with two days growth. Have ATG bristle-free sections of heavily bearded jawline with only pseudo-ATG movements. The hot water that expands the hairs and raises them + improved skin stretching (guessing) really hits the spot! That smallest of self-honed razors is truly, finally shave-ready.

Haven't used the Kansas yet. Will do next time. Because of my major difficulties with lapping the Nortons I worked on that Kansas for about 15 hours. Learning how to bring as much of the edge to the super-mirror polish was good experience. Finally ground off the edge to make the tip very small and brought the tip (tricky tricky) to what appears to be shave-ready along the entire edge. The shaving test is required but the microscope gives me the green light.

Bad news on the Boker front. Both Bokers (5/8th and 11/16th?) look to be in as near a pristine condition as reasonably expected. Very few micro-nicks on one and a few semi-corroded little areas (cleaned up with MAAS) and tiny nicks on the larger ("Blue Steel"). Only an estimated 6k or so grit bevel but apparently whoever was using them had pasted strops and where the edge is intact has the seductive unbroken gleam of a fine cutting edge. I'll have to test-shave with both before cleaning them up with the Spydercos. Hope the edge isn't compromised steel like the Krank was.

I swear I've spent more hours honing various razors than actually shaving. Partly because of learning with conservative new edges, not taking out all the minor chips and micro-nicks, giving myself some steel space for any screw-ups, which are surprisingly few from the outset. It was just working those tips, inaccessible from plain pushing/pulling steel removal and the straight honing and x-pattern strokes that make me grit my teeth. I worked on that Kansas for well over six hours two days in a row. If I'd bore down on that thing and removed the edge's non-linear shape it might have taken an estimated 2-3 hours, because of tip concerns.

I had some bumps come back, because I hadn't shaved in over two days. With this combination rough/sensitive skin, which at this point is far less sensitive (thank G-d), having keratosis pilarus, seems to compel me to shave with a straight on a daily basis. I know many have smoother shaves after two day's growth but I don't think this applies well to my skin condition.

Keratosis pilarus is basically when the follicle becomes irritated from dust/grime, including one's own dead skin cells. That's why doing a rough loufah sponge exfoliation and even soaking in chlorinated water and vigorously rubbing the dead skin off helps keep my skin smooth (arms/shoulders/upper back and legs). I used the Noxcema knock-off several times yesterday but it doesn't seem to work nearly as well as Neutrogena's "Deep Cleanse" facial cleanser and their skin clearing "Face Wash". I don't think the Noxcema clone is very good as a shave prep skin oil remover, either. It's first few ingredients, after water, are basically oils and it doesn't strip the skin of interfering oils in preparation for the lathered soap/cream with moist/hot towel. I used the Noxcema clone before the shave today and it turned out very well but I know it's not really appropriate with superior products at this point.

I posit that maintaining the dramatic exfoliation of a straight razor shave as close to daily as possible, for someone with a skin condition like mine, is better for staving off the sycosis bumps, even if the shave is a "quickie" with only WTG and/or some light XTG passes. And I'll never give a shaving brush, especially a badger brush, credit for adequate skin-maintenance exfoliation! That's just crazy! And if anyone claims that they are treating their skin to a "gentleman's" shave, by using a badger over a boar, prior to shaving with a str8 razor under the pretext that it is less harsh on their skin, I'd take a stethoscope to their head and say "Nope, I don't hear anything working. My diagnosis is: BRAIN-DEAD!" That's an untreatable condition in my book...

Axel-
Just wanted to let you know that for whatever reason I have always had terrible trouble with ingrown-hair-like bumps, some of which form into nasty fluid-filled cysts for a week or so....

.... after trying all manner of balms and resting, I started shaving every day. Every single day...

...and I found that I don't have big cysts form if I shave each day. Maybe a little bump here or there due to technique, but no nasty gross cysts.

All this to say, I'm glad to see someone else with this problem and solution, because I thought I must be crazy. I'd thought about mentioning it on here a couple months ago, but figured I'd get a thousand condescending "It's your technique" responses...

I have a brother in the aggressive-is-better camp.

Do you have curly facial hair? How's your skin sensitivity, by which I mean physically, not chemically? Did you ever try popping and draining them with a needle?

Now that we're on the topic of in-grown hairs.. I wonder if there are any people of African descent who've found improvement with in-grown hairs with str8 shaving.

I hate those larger knobs too. I hardly ever get them. Haven't had something like that since about the first week of daily str8 shaving. Nice to hear you've found significant improvement.

Originally Posted by BKratchmer

Axel-
Just wanted to let you know that for whatever reason I have always had terrible trouble with ingrown-hair-like bumps, some of which form into nasty fluid-filled cysts for a week or so....

.... after trying all manner of balms and resting, I started shaving every day. Every single day...

...and I found that I don't have big cysts form if I shave each day. Maybe a little bump here or there due to technique, but no nasty gross cysts.

All this to say, I'm glad to see someone else with this problem and solution, because I thought I must be crazy. I'd thought about mentioning it on here a couple months ago, but figured I'd get a thousand condescending "It's your technique" responses...

I have a brother in the aggressive-is-better camp.

Yep. Decided to cultivate some restraint and not use either of my two untested newly self-honed razors and use a regular one for the third time in a row (though I did finish that one..). Felt the need to shave, didn't want to spend another 48 hours without scraping my face with some cold, hard, super-sharp German steel. Is that normal? It doesn't sound normal, does it? I'm so glad there's a community out there that can understand and relate to my compulsions...

Skin feels good. Part of the restraint is in not going for the full (not completely BBS at this point) shave, but for a faster shave. WTG on sideburns and neck, some ATG & pseudo-XTG on jawline and chin. I've taken to XTG on parts of the mustache, and doing the XTG on jaw is sort of ATG in the right-to-left but.. I'm not going all out. Funny how awesome some casual strokes with diagonal pseudo-ATG swipes up on the bearded areas turn out so well with these more casual shaves. Today I used Kiehl's shave cream, which isn't really up to par with my other creams. Fast, not aggressive, not as thorough with sub-par cream. No alum, no skin tonic (been using C.O. Bigelow's). No healing balms. Just a cold rinse and Brut aftershave. That was it.

I shaved myself in a fast manner with sub-par aftershave and no healing agents or astringents and my face felt perfectly fine. Cold weather post-shave, too. If I'd shaved the way I did today when I only used a str8 infrequently, or at least not the majority of the time, I would have a pink pseudo-afterburn glow for two hours. Can't say for sure but I'm betting that I won't have more bumps or tenderness tomorrow, either. Post-shave products described in this post, especially the alum, did more to flare up and exacerbate short-term "afterglow" yet improve long-term outcome than anything else, FWIW.

Originally Posted by Kees

IIRC the particle size of Cr2O3 is apporx. 0.5 micron. I am not sure how that translates into grit size. Cr2O3 mellows the edge. It gives me a more comfy shave, I am not sure it actually sharpens the edge.

The finer the hone the slower it cuts.

If you need a real cheap set up: get yourself lapping paper of the desired grit size, tape it onto a glass plate and you're in business.

Ya know, Kees. I inquired at my nearest hardware store and they cut glass to order. Checked out the sandpaper and perused this forum for more info.. that was a few days ago. Today I went at got it. I'm going to go for Josh Earl's wiki on lapping hones. It's too daunting to attach the sandpaper onto glass. Got a thin pane of glass and a coarse grit for the bevel setter and a fine grit for the 8,000 Norton. Hope I can brush the grit off so I don't ruin the edge. I'll use one of my "bad" real razors to test strokes on every time I use the newly flattened hone. Those stoopid stainless throwaway fake razors are useless even as test razors (steel's too soft).

I should have gotten a coarse DMT 8"x3" when I had the budget. Would have been good for major problem eBetray finds, too. Not that I needed to do much of that. There's not much for me to do, given my current lot of unhoned/non-shave-ready razors. I'm just glad to have all my hones perfectable at this point.

Managed to hold off shaving for the whole weekend. Hadn't shaved in over 72 hours. Bumps came back. Used Mama Bear's "Dragon's Tears". Hadn't used a MB soap for a long time. What a difference! The Herban Cowboy and J.B. Williams' mug soap have almost no cushion in comparison to MB's. These inferior shave soaps just have glide, plenty of glide with re-wetting in the latter half of a shave but other than that.. used the "Vincent" hollow aluminum handled mock open razor with half a DE blade. Second time with the current blade so it was easy, super sharp shaving. Close, smooth shave with no apparent irritation. Scraping off bumps along with whiskers. Face seems to remain in tougher, better condition for the direct action of an open razor. A little alum block and Pinaud "Clubman" after shave and a little cold winter air and everything seems to be "A O.K."

I have yet to use the Dubl Duck "Dwarf" and the little Kansas wedge, yet. Looking at the little American wedge I'd swear if it isn't stainless than it is some kind of semi-stainless steel. All those hours on the waterstones and all the tarnish marks (of which there are very few) remain the same. It has a smoky, ghostly haze but no real tarnishing. Hard little razor. I hear them quietly beckoning me.. I'll have to use one of them tomorrow! I don't know whether the super-sharpness of the broken-in-half DE blade makes for a better or worse re-introduction to shaving, but I highly doubt my face will be troublesome for tomorrow's shave. Maybe the MB soap had something to do with it?