Thread: Say hello to my little friend.

What is the meaning of a 'Guildhall piece'? Something special done to demonstrate? educate, or impress? Curious!

I believe to join you had to show and demonstrate a masterwork. In much the same way a Master penman produces a document and they judge it. If it is deemed of master quality then you attain the title.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvSyQDu49pI

Wow, a Guildhall Piece! There are one of a kinds (because no one has seen another one) and ONE OF A KINDS! Because that is all there has ever been.
Now I wonder if there were any pieces produced by a master that would be a one of? Maybe an exhibition? I think voidmonster could evaluate the razor and tell something of the quality, not just the rarity. Does it surpass or equal the razors of that period? I could roughly reference a trade that I was once in: sure you were a journeyman at a certain point following your apprenticeship but a first year journeyman had little similarity to someone in the trade for say 15 years...

It might be worth sending a picture to the razor/cutlers guild and seeing what they think.

The Worshipful Company of Cutlers

I've got a lot more to say about the razor and Gog and Magog soon, but I'm on the last day of painting. This has been eating my days entirely!

However, I am fairly confident this razor is not a guild piece or masterwork. The craftsmanship is good, but not extraordinary -- I have numerous production razors from Sheffield with finer fit & finish (even if they're not 1/10th as well-preserved!) It was used. There's a little bit of rust in the pivot.

This razor was made well into George Palmer's career, and I have some reason to think that it was made in Sheffield, not London.

I'll get to all that tomorrow once the painting is done.

Thats one beautiful giant Zak. And for your view from the house....hopefully some POS doesn't build something to block it, like me. Two years after I moved in, houses were popping up like spring flowers. Wished they were perennials [emoji35]

Your latest acquisitions are so gorgeously impressive Zak. Congrats on the home also & I hope everything goes well fixing it up. I don't know where you find these things but you are the pro at it! I love it!!!

thats a fantastical looking razor, nice score!

Well, as with everything to do with getting the house renovated to move into, it took me longer than I expected to have some free time to write more about this little (okay, not actually very little) beastie.

I got this razor from an auction house in Sheffield along with 3 other Palmer razors (which are now in ScienceGuy's collection -- remarkably, his are the better preserved AND possibly older, but I leave that to him to show).

This is noteworthy because these razors were part of a single-owner collection of razors. With the exception of a 7-Day set from Asprey, in London, all the other razors were John & William Ragg, and there was even a Joseph Ragg & Sons razor. Most all the razors were in extraordinary condition.

I suspect, but have no evidence to prove, that these were on display in the Ragg's workshop and that the Asprey and Palmer razors were made by Joseph Ragg between 1815 and 1825. It's entirely possibly I'm wrong and it was just an eccentric collector, but it seems quite odd that someone would have representative specimens of Ragg-produced razors spanning their company history plus two London manufacturers.

For what it's worth, other than the ridiculous size of the Magog razor, it's very Sheffieldy in its design.

Before I had a chance to unearth my Magnum Bonum razors, I thought it might bear a strong resemblance to one.



Not really.

In short, I think it was actually Sheffield-made, but I have no proof.

The other thing I have no proof of but strongly suspect is that it was made for a Lord Mayor of London, as part of a fancy dressing kit (that thing George Palmer was famous for -- namely gentlemen's nécessaire).

Every year there is a new Lord Mayor of London.

Because London likes it confusing, the Lord Mayor of London is not the same as the Mayor of London.

The Lord Mayor gets his own show.

This is a slightly old tradition.

Now then, what's Gog and Magog got to do with this, and how does it relate to what Iceni said?

Well, Gog and Magog 'take part' in the Lord Mayor's Show. As you can see from that page, the history of the giants is... Well. Confusing and confused.

It actually gets worse if you try and figure out the biblical connection, because it's equally confused in the bible. (Short version of that link is: Gog was a person from the city of Magog. Until he was two people. Then John of Patmos did his eschatological dance on bits & pieces of what came before and turned Gog and Magog into FLAMING DEMONS OF SATAN, RAARRR!)

But that's kind of the modern background noise of the whole thing.

In the early part of the 19th Century, Gog and Magog were two big statues in the guild hall with a fanciful history. Much of the stuff linked above is derived from scholarship that doesn't seem to have begun to happen until the 1860's or 70's.

1819 Brought us 'Robin Goodfellow's The History of Gog and Magog, Champions of London. The author alone ought to tell you how accurate this is, but it does at least represent one view of the figures from a time contemporary with the razor.

By 1822, there was a pantomime called Gog and Magog; or Harlequin Antiquary. By most accounts it was a mess.


(The kindest review I found)

Much earlier, the 1769 Kentish Gazette had this rather gnomic bit of humor:



Many of the allusions in that piece escape me, but it seems largely to be smirkingly suggesting the Lord Mayor was hard up for cash.

So, to wrap it all up, I think this razor was one of a pair in a dressing kit made by George Palmer between 1815 and 1825. The razor(s) may have been made in Sheffield, and the kit may have been custom work for one of the Lords Mayor of London during that time period.

I really do wish Neil were with us to swat my guesses down with some well-grounded reality, but this is what I've got.

A bit confusing, yet fun read, Zak!

Indeed, Neil would have something to say!