Old mystery razor! Is it really old or just old?

[Voidmonster]

Today I got this razor that I won on eBay.

It came from Normandy, France. I nabbed it because it *looked* like a pre-1775 razor. I'm not sure about that anymore, since there are a number of features about it that don't stack up for that. However, it is in all ways baffling.

Like the blade shape.



And the tail, or lack thereof.



The blade is odd in other ways too. It tapers quite significantly from toe to heel.





And then there's the tang stamp, or what little remains of it.



I'm utterly stumped.

My very best guess is that this is some manner of production razor made prior to about 1850 or so. At a later date it was either repaired or heavily modified into its current form.

It's definitely had some regrinding, and some of it on the tang (hence the very faint stamp), but it looks like the tang has always been much thinner than the blade. I can't tell what's up with the tail. The blade itself is, at its widest is a hair over 7/8 and is just about the same length as either of my two <1830 razors. It also came with a handmade leather sheath. Even that, I'm pretty certain, is very old.

Can anyone help identify a time and/or place for this?

And yes, I fully intend to clean it, hone it and shave with it if at all possible.

(Sorry all the pictures are upside down, new phone cam)

[Mauri]

When you replied to my post on the stub tailed razors I immediately thought you were the one who outbidded me on this piece!
Obviously mine is the other one from the same seller...

On this page From Perret to Kampfe: Origins of the Safety Razor you can see a picture of Perret's invention of his safety razor (and the way to handle it) taken from his book "La Pogonotomie": the shape of his blade strictly reminds me to the ones we have, and the book is dated 1769.

This doesn't mean that our blades are original (although mine is so thin at the tang that I don't think it could have had a tail) but, should they prove so, this can maybe give an idea of their period.
So now we have two similar razors (this and the WWI, right?): please don't tell me you also crave for John Barber!

Cheers,
Mauri

[holli4pirating]

The taper from the toe to the tang is not uncommon on older razors. Based on the well defined shoulder, I don't think it's a blade from the 1700's, but I'm not sure.

[Voidmonster]

When you replied to my post on the stub tailed razors I immediately thought you were the one who outbidded me on this piece!
Obviously mine is the other one from the same seller...

On this page From Perret to Kampfe: Origins of the Safety Razor you can see a picture of Perret's invention of his safety razor (and the way to handle it) taken from his book "La Pogonotomie": the shape of his blade strictly reminds me to the ones we have, and the book is dated 1769.

This doesn't mean that our blades are original (although mine is so thin at the tang that I don't think it could have had a tail) but, should they prove so, this can maybe give an idea of their period.
So now we have two similar razors (this and the WWI, right?): please don't tell me you also crave for John Barber!

This definitely seems to be the right direction. Still no closer to sorting out the maker's stamp on this, but some mysteries are never to be solved. I suspect this is one of them, unless someone comes through with some really remarkable research.

I've been in good contact with the seller of this one, but the information she had was limited. Basically, I know it's a French razor that never left France.

(I don't yet have any John Barber razors, but at this point my collection of old stuff is about where I want it to be, so I don't think I'll me scouring eBay for them. Now if one shows up here on the classifieds....)

[Voidmonster]

The taper from the toe to the tang is not uncommon on older razors. Based on the well defined shoulder, I don't think it's a blade from the 1700's, but I'm not sure.

I did some extremely minimal cleanup and took better pictures.



The pins seem to be iron with fancy copper washers. Definitely copper and not brass.




It tapers A LOT. So much so, that the scales touch when the razor is closed.



It is not a lovely razor.

The other's I've come across that are like it are Scipio's, which looks slightly newer than this one, but it's hard to tell due to preservation quality and the nice job he did of cleaning that one up. There's also Walt's which looks decidedly newer to me. And then there's Mauri's, who got it from the same seller I did.

It certainly seems likely that the well defined shoulder puts it after 1800, but it just doesn't feel post-1800.

How it feels, though, is a pretty poor basis of identification. I feel pretty confident that if anyone could turn up a list of French razor makers I could winnow down the options for the marking on the blade. Johnmrson's list does at least let me rule all those out.

The closest I have to a real clue on that front is that the letter-forms on mine appear to be the same style letters as Scipio's razor, even if the actual name is not the same (I've tried lining the stamps up and they just do not correspond).

[charlie48horlogerie]

Hello

Based on my vast collection, it's a french razor from the beginning of th XIX° century time according to the shape of the scales, the look of the rivets, it could date from 1800 to 1825 or so, but certainly not from the XVIII° century. The rivets are quite larger and the shape blade more rude ! Reading the stamping coulf have been quite helpfull !

However I may be wrong

Regards

[Voidmonster]

Hello

Based on my vast collection, it's a french razor from the beginning of th XIX° century time according to the shape of the scales, the look of the rivets, it could date from 1800 to 1825 or so, but certainly not from the XVIII° century. The rivets are quite larger and the shape blade more rude ! Reading the stamping coulf have been quite helpfull !

However I may be wrong

Thank you so much! Not speaking French has made it difficult to do research on this razor.

[livingontheedge]

I wonder if this is one blade, from one of those two blade razors? Perhaps one blade broke and the other was saved and rescaled.

[Mauri]

I have recently read about "restauration" (French) razors. They were razors made in France, about mid 1800, in the shape of the 1700 razors. They have been state of the art for some time there, but this fashion ended with the XIX century.
Here are mine:



(sorry for the bad pic, it's night time here in Italy)
All of them are good blades.
I also have other two French old STR8S that look to be from 1820 - 1840, but knowing this taste for old style stuff that the French people proved to have in that century, I don't know how much can I trust the dating method I used...

[Voidmonster]

I wonder if this is one blade, from one of those two blade razors? Perhaps one blade broke and the other was saved and rescaled.

Yeah, there are a lot of similarities to the papillion razors, but I'm pretty sure this one is all original. The pins are iron (which I've not seen anywhere else).

I have recently read about "restauration" (French) razors. They were razors made in France, about mid 1800, in the shape of the 1700 razors. They have been state of the art for some time there, but this fashion ended with the XIX century.
Here are mine:



(sorry for the bad pic, it's night time here in Italy)
All of them are good blades.
I also have other two French old STR8S that look to be from 1820 - 1840, but knowing this taste for old style stuff that the French people proved to have in that century, I don't know how much can I trust the dating method I used...

How very interesting! I just bought two Wade & Butcher razors (though I don't have them in-hand yet) which were, I'm pretty sure, late 1800's razors made for the American Colonial Revival period on much the same idea -- 'modern' razors done in an old-fashioned way. Kind of like all these new cars designed to look like they're from the 50's.