Thread: A Confused Citizen

I have been having a bit of time on my hands and have been more active on the forum than I have in quite a while. Now, I noticed some things that have been puzzling me, the main thing being the vendor policy and its enforcements. I enjoy the interaction on the forum and understand that vendors are part of it. Which is not necessarily a bad thing at all: it enables people to get in touch with reliable businesses in a niche that has new businesses popping up like mushrooms. I am perfectly okay with that.

However, there are a few things in the vendor policy that struck me as a bit confusing. Firstly:

Originally Posted by Vendor Policy

3. Reviews.*SRP*has*a section dedicated to reviews of shaving related goods. Having your products reviewed by experienced members is an excellent way to make users aware of the quality of your products. If you send samples of your goods or work to*a member of*SRP's management team, you will receive one or more expert reviews. The review will go into the Reviews area for posterity, and be placed on the front page. It is be a great way to get word out about a new product and to bring traffic to your website.

I am aware that the review section is (sadly) no longer accessible, but encouraging vendors to offer their items for review in order for exposure may cause issues with those reviews not necessarily being unbiased, no matter where they are published. If those samples are paid for by the reviewer or a disclaimer is added that they were not then this of course would be a lesser issue, though.

Secondly:

Originally Posted by Vendor Policy

In order to deal fairly with all vendor related issues, SRP has installed a Vendor Approval Panel ("panel"). We have done this as fairly as we possibly can. Five of the Senior Mods make up the panel: two are vendors themselves, three are not. The panel will make all final decisions on vendor applications and approvals.

I understand that the majority of the panel are not vendors, but nonetheless: is there not at least a slight conflict of interest of any vendors having a say in vendor policy? There must be at least five Senior Mods who are not vendors, I would think. I would be most obliged if any of the Senior Mods could clarify how exactly I am to understand this.

Thirdly, I was wondering why it says:

Originally Posted by Vendor Policy

2. The Vendor's Corner. In here, and only in here, you can advertise yourself.

but then two paragraphs down it says:

Originally Posted by Vendor Policy

4. Custom makers and restorers can post their finished goods in The Custom Builts and Restorations Forum. Items should be truly custom or restored, not just 'look what I wiped down with MAAS'. You may not advertise the product itself. This is a forum for showcasing work, not for selling it.

To me, this seems like a conflicting definition of commercial activity, namely 'advertising oneself outside the Vendor's Corner as opposed to 'advertising of individual products'. I am confused as to why posts concerning products that were unambiguously made/restored for commercial purposes outside the Vendor's Corner are not considered advertising oneself (even if the product in question itself is not explicitly being advertised). This goes for posts in both the Custom Builts and Restoration forum as well as The Brushmakers Alcove.

Also, if a person with a vendor status makes a post concerning an item they made without explicitly mentioning that it was made for their own use does it not in some degree imply that it was made for commercial purposes, as the EVERYONE PLEASE READ sticky in The Brushmakers Alcove explicitly mentions is not allowed?

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

However do not in any way manner or form express or imply your creations are for sale or imply solicitations for purchase.

Again, if any of the Senior Mods could clarify as to how I am to understand all of this, I would be much obliged.

Lastly, I noticed that there are members that seem to be vendors according to the Vendor Policy's list of criteria:

Originally Posted by Vendor Policy

You are a vendor, if you meet any or all of these criteria......

have a commercial website on which you offer shaving related products;
listed items for sale in the*Classifieds*on a regular basis.
buy or make items with the sole intent to re-sell them.

Yet some of these members do not have a vendor badge. I am not going to name names here because it is not my point to call people out (and some of it could be conjecture on my side). My point is that it seems to be an ongoing general issue that is in conflict with SRP's vendor policy.

I preferred to make a public post out of this rather than going directly to Senior Mods via PM, as I think resolving my confusion in the public forum would benefit other users (including potential vendors) as well as the general clarity, transparency and integrity of this gentlemanly safe-haven in the straight razor niche. I am not looking to pick an argument or trying to challenge authority; I am genuinely curious, as these questions have been bugging me for a while now and I think we all agree we want to keep SRP an honest, level playground as well as a source of enjoyment as opposed to a source of frustration.

Also, a genuine thanks to the moderation team for all the hard work behind the scenes, I know it is not a walk in the park to do this stuff pro bono in your free time. We are all human.

Much obliged and best regards,

Pieter

Seems a good, yet difficult question, Pieter. I have wondered about half of what you posted. Some answers shall be forthcoming, I am certain.
Some are here to sell. Authorized or not. To those who keep up with Ebay and go to links there, there are always those who slide through, do nothing else, and post slick photos of their 'newest' creations which we all know, ARE for sale.
I am of the opinion it works to some degree.

Also, some show their work and within a week, it is listed for sale. Either Ebay, or on their website. Or both!
I used to get bent over it. They do not contribute to the forum, discussions, help, nothing.

I show some razors I have restored. A hobby of mine. Some day they will arrive at sale, as will everyone's.

The point is posting in order to advertise for sale with website, etc implied, yet not spoken, not being a vendor may not be good. Who knows what quality is offered on these?

It is a prickly one certainly, I look forward to the clarification.

Originally Posted by Pithor

We are all human.

...........

That same question has been put to me privately in a PM a while back by a different member. My personal take is to recognize things the way they are and if it bothers you simply avoid buying from quasi vendors.

Bob

I don't want to speak on behalf of the mods/seniors/owners - I am sure they'll pop up at some point. I just wanted to give an historical perspective on some of this.

Initially, or at least early on, there was very little in the way of vendorish persons or endeavours per se. A lot of it was ad hoc - there were restorers: some were professional (mainly knife guys transitioning across), many were just learning the ropes. Everyone was exchanging ideas, offering advice, posting pics, talking about how to do this or that, etc.

It was in this atmosphere that the idea of the workshop forum arose.

Then vendors began to rise - some well-known and well-respected members of this forum who cut their teeth here, provided invaluable help here, received invaluable help here. I don't think I am misrepresenting things when I say that, for example, Bruno, Glen and Max all fall in this boat.

So then a problem arose - how do we foster and encourage the communal approach to learning and restoring etc, and at the same time accommodate this new burgeoning vendor-class? This is where the "post pics of your work in the workshop forum, but don't talk about sales" idea arose. We want to keep that helpful "here's what I've done, what do you think" feedback thing we had (and perhaps still have) going on without turning it into a "farmer's market" as it were.

I'm not sure if that helps answer any of the questions - not my main aim, as I said. But hopefully there's a bit more of an understanding of where it came from. I've probably muddied the waters even more to be honest, so sorry if that is the case.

James.

Originally Posted by Pithor

I have been having a bit of time on my hands and have been more active on the forum than I have in quite a while. Now, I noticed some things that have been puzzling me, the main thing being the vendor policy and its enforcements. I enjoy the interaction on the forum and understand that vendors are part of it. Which is not necessarily a bad thing at all: it enables people to get in touch with reliable businesses in a niche that has new businesses popping up like mushrooms. I am perfectly okay with that.

However, there are a few things in the vendor policy that struck me as a bit confusing. Firstly:



I am aware that the review section is (sadly) no longer accessible, but encouraging vendors to offer their items for review in order for exposure may cause issues with those reviews not necessarily being unbiased, no matter where they are published. If those samples are paid for by the reviewer or a disclaimer is added that they were not then this of course would be a lesser issue, though.

Honestly, AFAIK ....... no vendor has given a moderator an item for free in exchange for a review. If they did, I would expect the reviewer would say so.

Why there are no reviews anymore is a separate issue having to do with dev stuff that I don't understand, so I won't attempt to explain it.

Originally Posted by Pithor

Secondly:



I understand that the majority of the panel are not vendors, but nonetheless: is there not at least a slight conflict of interest of any vendors having a say in vendor policy? There must be at least five Senior Mods who are not vendors, I would think. I would be most obliged if any of the Senior Mods could clarify how exactly I am to understand this.

As Jimbo noted in his post, this vendor/rules stuff sort of evolved as it became necessary. I wasn't a mod when it began. Off the top of my head I don't know that there are that many seniors, that are not vendors, to choose from. We sort of assume that the vendors who are seniors, and are on the vendor panel, can be trusted. For sure if any one of the team felt there was a conflict the issue would be discussed.

As to the third and following questions ........ I can't answer those. Someone will be along. As I noted, most of this stuff was instituted before I came along to the team. I haven't memorized the rules, and frequently have to go back to them and check to see if this, that , or the other is allowed when I'm confronted with a reported post.

Not trying to avoid it, I just don't feel competent to explain what I haven't taken the time to understand myself.

Originally Posted by Pithor

Also, a genuine thanks to the moderation team for all the hard work behind the scenes, I know it is not a walk in the park to do this stuff pro bono in your free time. We are all human.

Much obliged and best regards,

Pieter

Thanks for the kind words. Forgive my bringing some humor to your serious post (post #4) I couldn't resist.

Let's just Un-Confuse this mess,,,

Get yourself a Wade & Butcher razor, best damn razor ever made, a bottle of Pinaud, best damn aftershave ever made & a block of Cella, best damn soap ever made. Get them anyway you can; from whoever you can. Don't worry about who's selling what, who cares. Unless you catch someone putting his hand in your pocket, looking for your Wade & Butcher,,, let him be,,,

See,,, not so confusing,, is it?

Actually, it's "from whomever you can."

If we can't follow the vendor rules we need at least to follow the grammar rules.

Originally Posted by Utopian

Actually, it's "from whomever you can."

If we can't follow the vendor rules we need at least to follow the grammar rules.

I think you just Hirlaued Hirlau ??