Thread: Rolling X Stroke, Library Version

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Maybe somebody should take all the info presented in this thread and go update that Wiki Article


Jimbo and Gugi can explain how to do that if you are interested

The wiki is member driven it isn't just for Staff


ps: You need to recontour the Shoulder if you are hitting it while honing, or it will either not hone the very edge or create a Heel hook..

Well, I vote we don't do that. Too much of this palaver is one monkey-like member thrashing about in public.
You can edit me out and add the other members, I won't mind.

Originally Posted by WW243

Well in 2012 I sent out one razor to a pro. I haven't had to again since. Not that I don't respect experience but simply that I looked at honing as an enjoyable skill to learn and looked forward to being self sufficient.
On a side note, why would a mod take down ones post and not have the decency to tell you why they did this? Did they make a moral decision, or did someone object to your post? Is it unacceptable to meet snark with snark?

My apologies if you thought my post was snarky. I am no word smith and what I meant in my comment was possibly to bring this up in maybe advanced honing thread so that it would get some more pro attention. Not that you should just send out your razor. Some folks also find Rolling x strokes easier to realize on narrower hones. Helps them focus better on spine to edge contact and gives more rocking room if needed. Good luck

Perhaps the confusion is that honing a Smiling razor is different than honing a Warped razor, (Concave/Convex), while both use the same stroke.

The Wiki shows Russel demonstrating honing for both issues using the same stroke,(two different sets of photos), a Warped razor, Concave side with the heel off the stone. The same stroke will work for smiling or warped razors, but only the top series of photos will work for the Concave side of a warped razor.

The second series of photos, that Russel calls the Rolling Hone is the same stroke Charlie is using in his video on a Smiling Razor. It will not work on the Concave side of a Warped razor, but will with Smiling and Convex side or a warped razor.

The spine has to be on the stone the whole time to get a consistent angle, just not the complete spine at the same time, for a smiling edge or a warped spine.

For a warped razor, the Convex Side uses the standard rolling X, rolling or lifting the heel end up, as the razor makes contact, down the middle of the stone. This is the same stroke as a Smiling razor, (Charlie’s video)

The concave side, hones on the half of the stone closest to where the X will finish, so that the heel and corresponding spine, come off the stone and allows the bevel to ride on only half or a small portion of the stone near the edge. The heel and corresponding part of the spine has to come off the stone for the center part of the bevel to make contact, rolling is down, not up, off the edge and away from the stone, on that side.

It is the same stroke, on different parts of the stone, with a different objective for different issues.

The Wiki is fine, just difficult to explain, demonstrating, two different issues, using the same stroke on different parts of the stone. If we could see the water in the photos you would see, where the bevel and edge are making contact.

This might help...

Yep, same here. I won't quote a honemeister, not being able to find the post but I asked this question about lifting the spine and he said not to....

The amount of “lift is proportional to the amount of curve (smile), or warp on the convex side, usually not more than a millimeter. So the lift or rock, is really just a pressure shift and the spine stays on the stone. A lot depends on the grind, wedge vs. hollow, where the blade will just flex.



For all but very warped or large Sheffield smiles, a pressure shift is all you need.

Either way some sharpie ink will quickly tell you how much you need. Ink it up and do what it needs.

Yea, he is honing into the stabilizer, if you look at the tape you can see he is putting more pressure on the heel than the toe, but he has a nice even bevel, a sign of an experienced hand
.
I would lightly grind the stabilizer, but his way is working.

Euclid: so for a warped blade you are honing off the edge of the stone? Not questioning technique just trying to understand your approach to the concave side of a warped razor.

Originally Posted by Razorfaust

My apologies if you thought my post was snarky. I am no word smith and what I meant in my comment was possibly to bring this up in maybe advanced honing thread so that it would get some more pro attention. Not that you should just send out your razor. Some folks also find Rolling x strokes easier to realize on narrower hones. Helps them focus better on spine to edge contact and gives more rocking room if needed. Good luck

No apologies needed. I was referring to another post. Thanks

Heel forward, down, across, slightly lift and loop back i.e. sweep....get out the loupe and read the trip
Or, just do a Rolling X Stroke!

“So for a warped blade you are honing off the edge of the stone?

Yes, but only the Concave side of the blade has to fall off the stone.

A warped blade will have a convex and a concave side. On the concave side, If the heel and toe are on the stone at the same time, the middle will not touch.

On the Convex side the middle will touch and the either the heel or toe will touch but not all three. Hone the Convex side, like Charlie did, rolling/lifting the heel and hone from heel to toe, down the middle of the stone.

To hone the Concave side, either the heel or toe has to come off the stone for the middle to touch. So heel forward, as you do an X stroke and the heel falls off the stone and rides on the middle from heel to toe. Instead of lifting, you use light downward pressure, as in the first series of photos in the library post.

You will only use the edge or half the width of the stone.

A flat blade with a smile can be honed either way as long as you roll or lift the blade to hone from heel to toe.