Thread: Newbs and the wiki

Originally Posted by Birnando

To me, this site is an awesome place for finding info on all things shaving related. Don't you agree?

ABSOLUTELY!! Speaking as a particularly incompetent newb, I gotta thank everyone for their freely given advise and investment in my journey. Sometimes I gain quite a bit listening to the trials and tribulations of other newbs as well. Just knowing someone else is struggling with my same problems and finding viable solutions is a remarkable confidence boost. Still......the whole point of putting together this remarkable database is to allow anyone to access the info at any time without hassling anybody else. I'll try to remember to search the system first.

THANX EVERYBODY!!

As someone who is newb to the world of straight razors but not a newb to the internet and the joys and pains of forums, I think SRP's wiki is pretty useful. I browsed it for a week or two before I joined.
However, it does leave a lot to be desired. The times that I have tried to search it seem to get me stuck in just searching that particular part of the wiki. Or when I do find some info that is pertinent it isn't as detailed as I would like.
Then I try doing forum searches. I usually net some useful information but what if I want more?
Right now if you so a search for "Rolls Razor" (yes, I found one for $10 at the local antique shop and figured if I couldn't get it shaving well it's at least a sweet looking case) you will get 12 pages of results. The first thread that looks to actually deal with the subject is the 14th thread down. There are a couple of posts from this year but it's essentially a dead thread with mosts of the posts dating from 2009. There may well be more information for me to find, but to search through 12 pages of threads is a project that would take days, if not weeks due to work, kids, trying to spend time with the wife, trying to occasionally do something with a "real life" friend that I can see in person.
If I wanted to find out more about this item either before I purchase it or before I ruin it or my face using it, I would probably ask a question on the forums and hope for either an answer that is helpful or a link to another discussion of said item so that I can learn as much about it as possible in a timely fashion.
Not all of us nublets mind doing some research but when you're faced with what could be a multi-day search of staring at the PC screen, clicking that handy little "New Thread" button is mighty tempting.

Originally Posted by gugi

From what I've seen recently, the problem is less with asking questions, and more with people who know nothing on the matter yet feel entitled that their opinion is as valuable as anybody else's.

Interestingly, we covered this issue on a thread here. The only way to combat this and maintain the open atmosphere (that balance of tension) is to tag every post (or create an atmosphere of) "Reader discretion is advised". I know I could have easily been led astray several times were it not for several experienced members ignoring the bad advice of others and tactfully asserting their opinion/experience, or supporting what good advice was already posted.

Originally Posted by WebsII

...threads that were reviewed by the moderators and deemed "worthy" of immortalization. The original threads are also separately maintained so that comments and questions may be posted.

Would you be willing to develop a Thread Valhalla?

Originally Posted by bharner

As someone who is newb to the world of straight razors but not a newb to the internet and the joys and pains of forums, I think SRP's wiki is pretty useful. I browsed it for a week or two before I joined.
...when I do find some info that is pertinent it isn't as detailed as I would like.
...Not all of us nublets mind doing some research but when you're faced with what could be a multi-day search of staring at the PC screen, clicking that handy little "New Thread" button is mighty tempting.

I'm also not new to forums (though a complete novice to Straights and even DE/SE's). When I do find an old thread that's useful, it's usually because google pulled it up for me. When searching via the forum utility my results are copious and uninformative. It may be just what I've searched for, but consider how repetitive our vocabulary is here from razor names to terms like scales, hone, etc. They can show up as a brief mention, or as the heart of a thread, but you don't know without sifting through days worth of threads.

In the instance that I do find an old thread I almost always have more quesions. In that case I keep the habit that I've built from my Auto forums, and resurrect that old thread, that way threads on the same topic are consolidated (instead of a bajillion threads on faux tortoise shell scales, you only have a million).

I'm 100% sure I've asked some dumb questions here. Thankfully no one has been short or rude to me. I really appreciate the time and attention all you senior guys have given my learning curve. As a guy with a Master's level education it can be a little humbling to ask simple questions and you guys have been great.

BTW, I did read the wiki and learned a lot from it, though I'm the kind of guy who prefers personal interaction to archival explorations, making threads my preferred avenue for education.

Thanks again for all of you who've put up with my questions (and not stomped on me when/if I've offered advice that wasn't in line with your greater experience and knowledge).

Originally Posted by bharner

As someone who is newb to the world of straight razors but not a newb to the internet and the joys and pains of forums, I think SRP's wiki is pretty useful. I browsed it for a week or two before I joined.
However, it does leave a lot to be desired. The times that I have tried to search it seem to get me stuck in just searching that particular part of the wiki. Or when I do find some info that is pertinent it isn't as detailed as I would like.
Then I try doing forum searches. I usually net some useful information but what if I want more?
Right now if you so a search for "Rolls Razor" (yes, I found one for $10 at the local antique shop and figured if I couldn't get it shaving well it's at least a sweet looking case) you will get 12 pages of results. The first thread that looks to actually deal with the subject is the 14th thread down. There are a couple of posts from this year but it's essentially a dead thread with mosts of the posts dating from 2009. There may well be more information for me to find, but to search through 12 pages of threads is a project that would take days, if not weeks due to work, kids, trying to spend time with the wife, trying to occasionally do something with a "real life" friend that I can see in person.
If I wanted to find out more about this item either before I purchase it or before I ruin it or my face using it, I would probably ask a question on the forums and hope for either an answer that is helpful or a link to another discussion of said item so that I can learn as much about it as possible in a timely fashion.
Not all of us nublets mind doing some research but when you're faced with what could be a multi-day search of staring at the PC screen, clicking that handy little "New Thread" button is mighty tempting.

You sound like you're going thru all the right processes & the "new thread" solution will often get you the answer you need but the senior members need to be cut some slack too if they seem short . After all the 12 days inconvenience you talk about when browsing may find you some information that took others decades to learn by experience & hard work. Not justifying rude replies, just that we're all human

As a new player to this game, I think perhaps many of the vets are taking their place in the wet shaving community for granted. I spent my fair share of time on the wiki and reading old posts even before I became a member. When you do become a member though, it's no fun to just read a wiki page and look at old posts. When you don't know much but want to get involved, you want to post on threads, start your own, and basically join the community. If all the noobs just read the wiki until they were experts and had what vets consider worthy opinions, we wouldn't have a single post for a year! While many vets know other members and have an identity, new members are basically nobodies. We want to meet people and join the community as well.

I think perhaps vets should keep in mind that conversation and debate is the essence of a forum. The wiki is clearly posted and somewhat easy to navigate, but sometimes it's nice to add your voice to the wealth of information on SRP, even if it isn't perfect.

One bit of advice I do have is to maybe remove the "Junior Member" tag under a new member's name. I'll admit I did my fair share of searching for threads I could post on just to get that bumped up to "Member". I think it kind of points new users out unnecessarily, especially since their number of posts are there anyways. It might alleviate things if it just said "Member" by default. One last thing is that SRP is a fairly intimidating forum. Most vets here are experts on many aspects of straight razor shaving, so for new members it's difficult to find threads to post on without seeming stupid or just repeating information on the wiki.

Just my 2 cents! This is a great resource and a rare thing on the internet and I don't think we should stifle conversation out of annoyance

The search engine that's built into out software is not even comparable to google, so it's not surprising that google can do much better job figuring out what is the best answer. I mean they're in the business of this.

The best we can do, and we're doing it is getting indexed by google. May be we can add a google search.

Sticky threads are just bad idea. They have tons of garbage in them and are hard to keep up to date. That's what wiki is good for. But if only a handful of people are willing to get on board and contribute to it, there will only be complaints.

My welcome thread in the beginner's section has only 4 links and the first one is absolutely sufficient to give somebody looking to start shaving with a straight razor all the basic information that will lead them to success. I'd challenge anybody to come up with a better introduction that hits on all the important points, yet allows plenty of room for variations of the specifics. The wiki is open, and so far there has been no meaningful contribution, or discussion about that page over the last 2 years. It has been viewed over 43000 times too, so it's not the lack of exposure.

The wiki is distilled information, it is never going to replace the forum discussions, but neither should the forum replace the wiki. SRP serves a pretty broad audience, some people want to just get some information, others just want to be part of a community that shares their hobby. SRP exists for both and anywhere in between.

I personally would really like to see more involvement and more constructive suggestions how to make this place better. I like seeing 'I don't like this' too, but expecting for somebody else to figure out a better way to do what you don't like and then do it doesn't really make things happen.

Originally Posted by gugi

May be we can add a google search.

I like this one for firefox http://straightrazorpalace.com/site-...h-plugins.html

Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

If there is something you do not like a wiki or think can be improved, PLEASE help us improve it!

I think a FAQ section would be a big help. And may alleviate some of the problem. Or maybe not.

Sorry. In too big of a hurry. I meant to say an updated FAQ section with threads of some of the most repetitive newbie questions.

Originally Posted by smgunn

Sorry. In too big of a hurry. I meant to say an updated FAQ section with threads of some of the most repetitive newbie questions.

What are some questions that you would suggest? I'll write up answers tomorrow.